Swallows Seem To Be Evolving to Avoid Cars

[thesummerqueen]

That was bad, Lastpoet. I was expecting Monty Python references, but I suppose no one expects Portuguese Puns.

[LastPoet]

Swing and a miss!

[Napoléon]

I think what he means is that it's an example of natural selection.

I'm sure he can clarify what he means.

My understanding is that natural selection is a part of evolution. Therefore saying it's 'evolution in action' is a pretty correct statement unless you're being unnecessarily pedantic.

I'm hoping he's just being pedantic, rather than an absolute doucher who actually thinks that natural selection and evolution are separate things.

[FallentoReason]

Since we've heard it all before, I'm pretty confident that he sees natural selection as being seperate to evolution... but let's not put words in his mouth.

[KichigaiNeko]

Ummm

Perhaps Daniel would like to explain to the class about the Finches of the Galapagos Islands?

[Angrboda]

Please. I beg of you. Don't give him any additional excuses to speak.

[Aractus]

How is what is happening not evolution? This population of birds is adapting to their changing environment. Change in frequency of alleles within a population over time is the definition of evolution.

Because they haven't actually CHANGED anything about themselves, all that's happened is that they've responded to environmental conditions with their existing genetics. If the conditions suddenly "changed back" they would develop as they previously had. Evolution is directional - it doesn't go forwards and backwards and concerns the development of new features, not the preference for existing ones.

[Napoléon]

Because they haven't actually CHANGED anything about themselves,

Swallows that nest on roadsides appear to have evolved shorter wings

Obviously this doesn't make them a new species, no one's saying it does. But if you can't see that this is evolution in action you're just being intentionally blind.

[Aractus]

Don't be ridiculous.

The default position in science is scepticism, ie "I don't know".

You have presented an observation and come to the conclusion that it is an example of evolution in action. I believe otherwise - evolution requires significant development and change for it to be a clear example of evolution. What you have an example of is the species preferring specific genes in a specific environment. That's not evolution, their wings have not been permanently shortened - if the environment suddenly changed back to how it traditionally was their wings could go back to the way they were.

[Napoléon]

That's not evolution, their wings have not been permanently shortened

No shit Sherlock, nothing is permanent that's the whole point of it being evolution in action.

if the environment suddenly changed back to how it traditionally was their wings could go back to the way they were.

And how does this have any bearing on whether it is evolution or not? Say it did go back, and their wings did change again, it would still be evolution. Hell it would simply make evolution more obvious.