Show me your proof

[Tonus]

What do they need all those carrots for?

As one bunny told the other, "if I had twenty-four carrots, I'd be golden!"

[A_Nony_Mouse]

What do they need all those carrots for?

As one bunny told the other, "if I had twenty-four carrots, I'd be golden!"

That is not in Anyanka's song.

[smax]

God does exist but he's a next level Atheist. The other gods make fun of him all the time for not believing in supreme intelligent design.

[Tex]

I'll do a proof. Nobody better steal it, cause I made it up all my self. And since I made it up all myself, it probably wont work well, if at all.

"Cause and effect" doesn't actually exist as some ethereal governing principle, but nevertheless is what we perceive when examining the world. Theoretically, if matter or electromagnetic forces acted differently, we would get different effects from causes. Our universe is quantitatively coherent, or, more scientifically termed, we have a conservation of mass/energy. However, this law is the same "cause and effect" thing, just expressed differently. Conservation is not some ethereal governing principle, but it is simply how the universe operates. But, there could be universe X where energy was able to be created. If friction worked in the opposite, energy would constantly be created. Or, universe X could randomly create mass. Or Hershey bars. Or bunnies. Or all sorts of different things. In fact, if we imagine a lack of cause and effect to a universe, there is an infinite possibility for what the effect might be for any given cause. That's actually what I want to do here: don't use the presuppositions the universe gives us naturally, but instead think of possibilities without the regular limits.

The possibility of effect is not based on cause, so we can say it is baseless or random.

Random is not restricted, so the effect has an endless or infinite amount of possibilities.

Out of the infinite possibility for chaotic universes, there is only one possibility for our ordered universe.

Our universe is impossible to exist. lim(x->∞) 1/x = 0

The universe shouldn't make sense. We should have bunnies poofing into existence all over the place while gravity sporadically turns on and off. Instead, we have order. Therefore, I argue design.

[smax]

Tex,

The sun will burn out, the earth will become uninhabitable, and galaxies will collide.

At best, you are arguing for poor design.

[Esquilax]

Our universe is impossible to exist. lim(x->∞) 1/x = 0

Could I ask how you got to here? I mean, it's clearly not impossible... we live in our universe. The possibility of it existing is one hundred percent, since... it does exist.

The universe shouldn't make sense. We should have bunnies poofing into existence all over the place while gravity sporadically turns on and off. Instead, we have order. Therefore, I argue design.

This is a pretty big leap of logic too. Given how much of the universe is exploding, or collapsing in on itself, or is just plain uninhabitable, it's hard to really argue for order.

Besides, getting there requires that we disengage ourselves from what we do know about the universe and going on your flight of fancy, and we're by no means required to do so; you can posit that a universe might exist where effect is independent from cause, where things happen spontaneously for no reason, but we don't live in that universe, nor do we have any reason to believe that's even possible. You're asking us to accept a premise that's not evident.

[smax]

For me, this particular subject is not of significant importance, although I have put considerable thought into it. When I think of the term "god", I think of a supreme being that is directly responsible for the existence of humans and is deeply involved in their struggle.

And, on that front, I see ZERO evidence that such a being exists.

Humans have been around for between 180000-200000 years, and over that span men have invented literally millions of gods.

Hard to imagine a "personal god" tolerating such blatant defiance for so a long a period of time.

[The Grand Nudger]

I see it perfectly. Rhythm admitted it means whatever he wants it too mean, which is absurd.

Not sure if you're grasping or if you truly don't understand where prefixes come from. See, theres this stork, and when mommy words and daddy words love each other....

You guys are not addressing whether a a God in one million more places than you are at any moment, or who knows one million times as much as Einstein is worthy of worship. I'd be perfectly happy with him.

Because you're already happy with the idea and you've invested some unspokens into it - you've also shown a clear lack of imagination in this regard. Add the qualifier "and wants you dead" and see how happy you are. Being super-powerful, super present, or super knowing would be impressive, in any permutation or individually - but not worthy of my worship (and depending on what this super-being used any of it's super-abilities for could be downright terrifying). There are human beings who are "super whatever" relative to myself....and you don;t see me down on my fucking knees (nor do I see you down on yours...so lets not pretend that any of this is what compels -either of us- to worship).

Neither will atheists answer whether they would serve Jesus if he came back and healed 94% of all the terminally ill people in the entire world. Or, if they are intelligent and brave enough to answer, the answer is no because he's not powerful enough, I assume. (They don't say)

I never miss an oppurtunity to answer a question like this (maybe you just missed my answering it all those times). No, I wouldn't "serve jesus" if he came "came back blah blah blah" because firstly, I'm not a damned peasant - and secondly, I think that your little myth is a disgusting narrative of despotic scapegoating. I don;t care if the despot sends a bag of beans to all his people, I really don't. They do that shit all the time and they remain despots, their previous actions remain irreconcilable with my clear conscience.

Demanding God is either omnipowerful or he is not presents a false dichotomy. Billions of people would love to see the Jesus I described return to earth whether he met some vague "omnipotent" standard or not.

So it isn't me who doesn't get it. It's mindless unbelievers who don't think, don't know anything about logic, and see only in black and white, just like the "fundies" they criticize.

Let me state this again, so there's no room for wonder. I don't actually care if you believe that your god is omnipotent or not. I think that either proposition is quaint, and filled with opportunity for amusement, but in the end, it has nothing to do with why I:

A: don't believe
and
B: wouldn't bow the knee if it were true either way.

Clear?

[A_Nony_Mouse]

God does exist but he's a next level Atheist. The other gods make fun of him all the time for not believing in supreme intelligent design.

That is a point against the intelligent part of the design. We and other two legged species are designed like four legged species. The incompetent who did this design has organs hanging off the spine and that means they hang poorly compared to four legs. It is the same design without internal modification.

Us folks who wear glasses do in fact ask what kind of idiot designed our eyes.

You can make a very long list. If there was a designer we are a freshmen class product which is meant only as an exercise to make mistakes so the student learns all it does not know.

[The Grand Nudger]

I always found that bit to be the most amusing. If were an example of a design that would say something pretty horrible about any designer. As an example of a emergent system we're remarkably well made, if, of course, you don't consider all the shit that wasn't (and is now long dead).

Get a bunch of self replicating whatevers, and the vast majority of them just won't do work. A few of them will -again by brute force of numbers, and continue that process for a very, very long time. You'd expect redundancy, inherited flaws, "just good enough engineering" and of course, a massive trash pile of failed "design". Conveniently, that's precisely what we find. To me, that's much bigger, much more impressive, and much more awe-inspiring than any "abbracadabra" moment, nevermind that this is how we see it happening - even if it weren't...I'd feel cheated by magic.