Sign in Quran

[remy]

So does this mean only men of understanding will grasp the hidden concepts within the quran?

I believe it is.

[paulpablo]

So does this mean only men of understanding will grasp the hidden concepts within the quran?

I believe it is.

But what about men of understanding who say the quran is false. For example in the embryological parts of the quran, and pz myers the embryologist says these parts are wrong.

Also every biologist who believes in evolution, and every ex muslim who believes islam is a very un peaceful religion

[remy]

I believe it is.

But what about men of understanding who say the quran is false. For example in the embryological parts of the quran, and pz myers the embryologist says these parts are wrong.

Also every biologist who believes in evolution, and every ex muslim who believes islam is a very un peaceful religion

sorry, i don't know really much about pz myers, but only read a bit that it's more to debunking the hamza interpretation of the verse.

p/s : un peaceful religion? is it? I've read some of testimony in wikiislam, and couldn't agreed to some of it. Still, there're some points that I agreed to. And I have nothing much against evolution however-

[paulpablo]

But what about men of understanding who say the quran is false. For example in the embryological parts of the quran, and pz myers the embryologist says these parts are wrong.

Also every biologist who believes in evolution, and every ex muslim who believes islam is a very un peaceful religion

sorry, i don't know really much about pz myers, but only read a bit that it's more to debunking the hamza interpretation of the verse.

p/s : un peaceful religion? is it? I've read some of testimony in wikiislam, and couldn't agreed to some of it. Still, there're some points that I agreed to. And I have nothing much against evolution however-

So the conclusion is some men of understanding understand the verses, some men of understanding disagree with the verses, some men of little or no education believe in the quran, some men who cant read or who have no education don't believe the quran, there isn't really much of a pattern that can be commented on.

[remy]

So the conclusion is some men of understanding understand the verses, some men of understanding disagree with the verses, some men of little or no education believe in the quran, some men who cant read or who have no education don't believe the quran, there isn't really much of a pattern that can be commented on.

My principle towards quran is simple, I (or we) don't take quran as a science book (because it isn't), if I don't understand it I ll just leave it to God, if someone made a good interpretation about some 'scientific discoveries' in it, i am happy, because I also love science just like you guys are. If you like to debunk quran, what do you think about verse 6:125. There's some notable statements regarding science, that shouldn't be discovered in 7th, and haven't seen any debunk made about it.

[paulpablo]

Which part is notable?

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

[remy]

Which part is notable?

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

What do you think about the words in bold.

p / s : I am sorry i shouldn't call it science in the first time but I think is just a discovery that shouldn't be discovered yet.

[paulpablo]

Which part is notable?

So whoever Allah wants to guide - He expands his breast to [contain] Islam; and whoever He wants to misguide - He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing into the sky. Thus does Allah place defilement upon those who do not believe.

What do you think about the words in bold.

p / s : I am sorry i shouldn't call it science in the first time but I think is just a discovery that shouldn't be discovered yet.

I understand what you mean, but I would have thought during the 7th century on a continent with many high mountainous regions (the highest mountain on earth in fact mt everest isn't far from india) people would have been aware that when you climb high, oxygen becomes depleted. Well not that oxygen becomes depleted, but that your chest feels tight when you climb high.

I don't think it would be right to say no one ever climbed a mountain or knew about high altitude in the 7th century.

By the way I don't enjoy debunking the quran, if I thought it was miraculous I'd look more into it, but I have seen nothing miraculous in the quran.

[Cinjin]

By the way I don't enjoy debunking the quran, if I thought it was miraculous I'd look more into it, but I have seen nothing miraculous in the quran.

The only thing somewhat miraculous about the quran ... ... that it's followers haven't been wiped off the face of the earth by intelligent people who find it's horribly immoral teachings in direct conflict with the general welfare of the human race.

[remy]

I understand what you mean, but I would have thought during the 7th century on a continent with many high mountainous regions (the highest mountain on earth in fact mt everest isn't far from india) people would have been aware that when you climb high, oxygen becomes depleted. Well not that oxygen becomes depleted, but that your chest feels tight when you climb high.

I don't think it would be right to say no one ever climbed a mountain or knew about high altitude in the 7th century.

By the way I don't enjoy debunking the quran, if I thought it was miraculous I'd look more into it, but I have seen nothing miraculous in the quran.

Actually shouldn't it better for the verse to say, He makes his breast tight and constricted as though he were climbing to the top of mountain. Because climbing into the sky was likely something impossible even if we just give a thought about it.

You guys always asked an evidence about God, how about I asked you any simple evidence that someone/race from or before 7th century, whom has climbed to the top of mountain and go to the desert just to share that his breast become tight and constricted (sign of less pressure right) as if he were climbing to the top. (well, actually you have to climb real high just to feel the symptom right).

Anyways, how about verse 24:45? I always fascinated with this verse, and sometimes I want to know other's thought about it.