A challenge about women and marriage in Islam

[paulpablo]

Ok whatever, I propose the exact same system of Islam minus the fact that an adult can marry a 9 year old girl, that's my system, go ahead prove me wrong.

Fine,
first you are restricting the freedom of people
Your argument is that a 9 years old is not an adult to choose
but

The average age for Puberty for girls is 12
some will have at 12 while others will have it before or after

Some of those girls will want and will have sex (Fact)
Instead of all the troubles that they will have (like any western non-Islamic country) it is better to allow them to marry
So restricting the marriage age is ridiculous (they will have sex regardless)

So you argue that I'm wrong and it's because the age of puberty on average is 12, so some 9 year olds might be going through puberty so we better let them get married at 9 years old to adult men?

Well just a few things to take into consideration.
Why do they have to have sex as soon as they go into puberty just because some of them might want to?

Can you seriously say with any intellectual honesty you think a 9 year old is as mentally mature as an adult woman? (I won't even converse with 18 or 19 year old girls very often and I'm 28, If I saw a man flirting with a 9 year old I would try my hardest to hospitalize him)

Along the same lines as that do you think it would be common if islamic law were in place to see a lot of 9 year girls perusing 40 year old men?
Or do you think it would be pretty much a one way street? Do you think it would actually be more likely that the islamic law would leave a lot of children to be legally set up into arranged marriages when they weren't even aware of what was going on to old men who know exactly what is going on who are arranging it all for their own perversions?

The bottom line is this, and I want a yes or no answer to this question but I don't think you will really dare to give me one,
do you think it would be fine if a 40 year old man flirted with then married and had sex with an actual 9 year old girl just because she has reached the age of having periods?
You would be fine seeing a girl who looks like she should be going to school being educated, playing with childrens toys and generally being a 9 year old girl, you would be fine seeing her getting married to a 40 year old man?

Before you found your wife did you see any 9 year olds that you were attracted to? Or any 9 year old girls who you flirted with and found you had things in common with?

[CapnAwesome]

I think once he was called out on linking something that contradicted his point and pretending that it was helping it, IslamicScholar did his first smart thing since joining these forums: tuck tail and run.

[Muslim Scholar]

So you argue that I'm wrong and it's because the age of puberty on average is 12, so some 9 year olds might be going through puberty so we better let them get married at 9 years old to adult men?

We don't let them, some of they may want that and it is not our business to prevent that!

Well just a few things to take into consideration.
Why do they have to have sex as soon as they go into puberty just because some of them might want to?

Some of them will have sex (regardless of rules and laws)

Can you seriously say with any intellectual honesty you think a 9 year old is as mentally mature as an adult woman? (I won't even converse with 18 or 19 year old girls very often and I'm 28, If I saw a man flirting with a 9 year old I would try my hardest to hospitalize him)

As I said it is her choice to have sex/marry or not
They will have sex anyway and you/we are not in a position to prevent them

Along the same lines as that do you think it would be common if islamic law were in place to see a lot of 9 year girls perusing 40 year old men?
Or do you think it would be pretty much a one way street? Do you think it would actually be more likely that the islamic law would leave a lot of children to be legally set up into arranged marriages when they weren't even aware of what was going on to old men who know exactly what is going on who are arranging it all for their own perversions?

It is not common (now) but there shouldn't be any laws preventing that
There is no harm done on the girl (or boy) to be married to an elder person
In Islam divorce is very easy and usually it is harmful (financial) to the man not the woman

do you think it would be fine if a 40 year old man flirted with then married and had sex with an actual 9 year old girl just because she has reached the age of having periods?

Flitration is not allowed in Islam
It goes like this
The man propose to the girls parents and if she agrees, then a judge (and sometimes a doctor) will inspect the case if she is suitable or not,
then they will get married
If at any time the girl is not satisfied or harmed she has the choice of divorce

You would be fine seeing a girl who looks like she should be going to school being educated, playing with childrens toys and generally being a 9 year old girl, you would be fine seeing her getting married to a 40 year old man?

It is her choice not yours

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Yup. But hey, according to MS's anecdotal proof, you get better (vaginal) orgasms when you cut your lady parts. Charming.

So you're turning down ask-a-muslim's challenge to improve your sexual pleasure by clitoris removal? Can't say I blame you. I sure wouldn't want to be a muslim lady .. with or without my lady parts intact.

In Islam Clitoris removal is forbidden
It is only removal of its tip (if it is long) if not nothing is done

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As you are talking about exceptions

Why do you think California remove the age restriction on marriage?

Because there is no clear line to draw, we cannot define a general rule to apply
Exceptions may happen, so marriage can be the solution for many problems

[paulpablo]

As I said it is her choice to have sex/marry or not
They will have sex anyway and you/we are not in a position to prevent them

The problem here is that you seem to live in a world where it is common for 9 year olds to be out having rampant sex unless they get married. I don't know what kind of an area you live in but that isn't the case in the majority of modern countries.

And why aren't we in the position to prevent 9 year olds from having sex?

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Flitration is not allowed in Islam
It goes like this
The man propose to the girls parents and if she agrees, then a judge (and sometimes a doctor) will inspect the case if she is suitable or not,
then they will get married
If at any time the girl is not satisfied or harmed she has the choice of divorce

Sounds romantic. And this system could be open to so many flaws its ridiculous. Don't you think it's possible that the girl could be encouraged by her parents even if she doesn't know what's going on to marry an old pervert who likes to have sex with 9 year old girls?

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You completely ignored my last question.


I asked how many 9 year old girls have you found yourself attracted to?
How many have you spoke with and got along with?

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The first statistic you posted on your link was

•Although only 13% of teens have had sex by age 15, most initiate sex in their later teen years. By their 19th birthday, seven in 10 female and male teens have had intercourse.[1]

This is 13 percent, and that's below the age of 15 not anywhere near the age of 9.

So because a small minority of 9 year olds had sex at one point we should allow adult men to propose to all 9 year old girls?

What happens to the 9 year old girls education when she is married and having sex and possibly gets pregnant?


http://frontpagemag.com/2012/frank-crimi...-numerous/

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ae_1364483620

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUULmrcmDf8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbtT8oHuap4

You can talk all you want about statistics but in reality these are the things that happen within Islam and with the law regarding such young marriage.

[Kayenneh]

So far we have:

¤ Underage sex
¤ Circumcision

as points for muslim marriage's superiority. How delightful, I just might convert straight away!

[KichigaiNeko]

Is this the part where I throw-up colourfully Kayenneh?

[Faith No More]

Some of them will have sex (regardless of rules and laws)

So, since some kids will be fucking at too early of an age, you think it's okay to break a 40 year old off a piece of that action?

[Violet]

So far we have:

¤ Underage sex

What's underage sex??? Is it like 'underage drinking'

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So, since some kids will be fucking at too early of an age, you think it's okay to break a 40 year old off a piece of that action?

What's too early an age to be fucking?

As long as all them 'rights'-related laws are followed... I think that 40 year olds are more likely better fuckers than 12 year olds. Maybe that's just me, though... something about experience.

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Is this the part where I throw-up colourfully Kayenneh?

Only if I can keep it for later

[Tonus]

As long as all them 'rights'-related laws are followed... I think that 40 year olds are more likely better fuckers than 12 year olds. Maybe that's just me, though... something about experience.

I'm thinking that the type of people who want to do the nasty with 12-year-olds probably don't have much in the way of relevant experience.

[CapnAwesome]

What's too early an age to be fucking?

I'll go with 9 years old to start with on that one.