Double Standard

[Aractus]

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I'm not sure if this goes in this forum, but here it goes:

I share my office with two girls, one Pentecostal and the other Catholic. I'll call them Penny and Cathy. Penny has a cross statue on her desk that reads something about "the lord" being the king of her work place. She takes her Bible with her everywhere she goes, prays before having her lunch, tells me how God is blessing my life every chance she gets, and often interprets things as signs from above. The other one is an advocate against abortion. That's Cathy. She gets fired up just talking about it. She wears clothes with slogans sometimes, since she participates in topic related events after work. All I do is wear my little rainbow wrist band sometimes and they sit there and talk about homosexuality being a sin. They think I'm stupid and I won't notice that they want to send me a message because of my band.

So Friday they began talking about religion and I pretended to be texting, since I think it is unethical and ridiculous to talk about religion and politics at work. Penny is annoyed by my indifference and asks in a rather high voice, "So, why aren't you saying anything? Are you offended by us?" I respond, "No. I'm not offended. I simply choose to not participate in discussions related to religion or politics at work, because it's a boundary I do not care to cross. But, do continue. I'm fine." Cathy gets obviously angry (I can tell by her aggressiveness) and bursts, "Why! What's your religion?" I answer, "I'm sorry, I thought I was clear that I don't care to participate. I have no problem in identifying myself as an atheist, but I will not discuss this any further, since it would probably be unhealthy to our work environment." Needless to say, they don't talk to me anymore. Not even if I need to get answers regarding common clients. They decided to simply ignore me. I no longer exist.

Fucking double standard hypocrites! Or... are they? That's my question. I have it clear that their belief is ironic, naïve, and full of gaps, but I want to consider their decision of not engaging in a healthy co-worker relationship with me. Does it make sense that, since they believe in a jealous and punishing god, they choose to express their loyalty by not talking to me anymore? I mean, to me it's ridiculous that I have to put up with their bullshitty means of expression (banners, cross pictures, etc.) and they don't tolerate my fucking wrist band, but does it make sense in any way? I don't have to be loyal to anyone (meaning no god). So, I have no problem in allowing them to keep their stuff even though it's annoying and I could, by policy, request them to take it off. On the other hand, they decide to pretend I don't exist, because I'm atheist.

So, does it make sense? Would it not make sense if they did continue to talk to me? Or, is there no possible way this could make sense, since god is love (so they should love me), but god is cruel, so they should fear him if not loyal to him? Any opinions or similar experiences?

No need to answer to all of this. Just needed to share with someone who understood.

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I used to work with a guy, who had a live-in girlfriend, and a 2nd girlfriend on the side. Anyway, to cut a long story short, one day one girl called for him and I called her the wrong name (half intentionally, half cause I didn't give a shit). He was fucking furious at me as if I had somehow did or said something I shouldn't, I'm like deal with your own shit and don't go blaming me for doing - nothing.

Yeah sometimes people get angry at you even when they shouldn't. I've been approached by activists for this and that over the years, and I tell them I have a different political view which I'm not interested in discussing with them. Every so often they try and force me to listen to their pathetic political ideologies. So I totally understand the "I don't want to discuss politics with you, thanks" response. And it's even more appropriate at work to have that response.

[thesummerqueen]

Even if you've only been there a month, the purpose of being there is to help your clients. Otherwise the business/workplace wouldn't exist. If you can't help your clients because of actions by your coworkers, I would document everything as best you can and take it to your boss, because your boss certainly ought to understand what the point of a business is. Maybe start e-mailing requests instead of asking, and then it's in writing.

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(I say all this because while I've been working at my job for 3 years, I have a troublesome coworker for reasons other than religion and recently had to go to my boss to discuss her blatantly disrespectful ways. When it comes to you getting your job done, most bosses are more than willing to listen and discuss options.)

[Angrboda]

I would talk to someone from the EEOC first, if applicable. Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act applies to companies with 15 or more employees and who are engaged in interstate commerce and prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion. (The latter qualification, interstate commerce, can be hard for a non-specialist to determine.) If in doubt, ask the EEOC. ()

I don't remember if religious discrimination is tier 1 or tier 2, but I would talk to someone who knows the law in this area (e.g. the EEOC). The only caution is that discrimination cases generally stand or fall on documenting a pattern of conduct. So, as summer suggests, start asking for things in writing, and keep a notebook where you note the time, day, and type of incident each time you have a problem with these individuals; such a record will be useful even if you only use it to discuss the issue with people in your company such as your superior or HR people.

[Fruity]

Thanks, guys.

Actually, I did this today. I sent one of them an e-mail requesting information that I needed and asked her if she needed us to talk to our superior in case she felt she needed guidance in the case. She responded in seconds.

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By the way, thanks Apophenia, for the useful information. I will keep it handy.

[Dragonetti]

Great!

People, who enforce these rules, take it very serious!

[paulpablo]

I'm not sure if this goes in this forum, but here it goes:

I share my office with two girls, one Pentecostal and the other Catholic. I'll call them Penny and Cathy. Penny has a cross statue on her desk that reads something about "the lord" being the king of her work place. She takes her Bible with her everywhere she goes, prays before having her lunch, tells me how God is blessing my life every chance she gets, and often interprets things as signs from above. The other one is an advocate against abortion. That's Cathy. She gets fired up just talking about it. She wears clothes with slogans sometimes, since she participates in topic related events after work. All I do is wear my little rainbow wrist band sometimes and they sit there and talk about homosexuality being a sin. They think I'm stupid and I won't notice that they want to send me a message because of my band.

So Friday they began talking about religion and I pretended to be texting, since I think it is unethical and ridiculous to talk about religion and politics at work. Penny is annoyed by my indifference and asks in a rather high voice, "So, why aren't you saying anything? Are you offended by us?" I respond, "No. I'm not offended. I simply choose to not participate in discussions related to religion or politics at work, because it's a boundary I do not care to cross. But, do continue. I'm fine." Cathy gets obviously angry (I can tell by her aggressiveness) and bursts, "Why! What's your religion?" I answer, "I'm sorry, I thought I was clear that I don't care to participate. I have no problem in identifying myself as an atheist, but I will not discuss this any further, since it would probably be unhealthy to our work environment." Needless to say, they don't talk to me anymore. Not even if I need to get answers regarding common clients. They decided to simply ignore me. I no longer exist.

Fucking double standard hypocrites! Or... are they? That's my question. I have it clear that their belief is ironic, naïve, and full of gaps, but I want to consider their decision of not engaging in a healthy co-worker relationship with me. Does it make sense that, since they believe in a jealous and punishing god, they choose to express their loyalty by not talking to me anymore? I mean, to me it's ridiculous that I have to put up with their bullshitty means of expression (banners, cross pictures, etc.) and they don't tolerate my fucking wrist band, but does it make sense in any way? I don't have to be loyal to anyone (meaning no god). So, I have no problem in allowing them to keep their stuff even though it's annoying and I could, by policy, request them to take it off. On the other hand, they decide to pretend I don't exist, because I'm atheist.

So, does it make sense? Would it not make sense if they did continue to talk to me? Or, is there no possible way this could make sense, since god is love (so they should love me), but god is cruel, so they should fear him if not loyal to him? Any opinions or similar experiences?

No need to answer to all of this. Just needed to share with someone who understood.

I probably would actually love that but that's just because I'm anti social I love when people decide to not talk to me especially annoying people, the people you described sound ridiculously fucking annoying.
There's a muslim who works with me but when he talks about religion I might argue back a little bit but I usually just say I can't believe in something that happened so long ago no matter how accurate the writings may or may not be. But he's pretty much one of my best friends in work.

[bladevalant546]

From my experience if all you do at work is talk about work and only work. That has very negative affects on productivity, I work for engineering firm as the IT department technician. I can tell you if I did not randomly talk about other things besidies work I would go postal.

With that said, what they did to you was a direct violation of typical workplace terms. While I advocate free speech in the work place, meaning I think politics and religion should be allowed to be discussed because as long as work is being done. I think there are certian rules and limiitations (definantely in customer service.), typically prothleytizing or being outwardly offensive. I am not and advocate of third party getting offended by idle talk (I think that is to picky) I think in terms of your situation it should be CALMLY reported. Remember be political, I would merely keep your explination as general as possible.

I think they were wrong in their approach to you, I have seen this various times on all philosophical views. It is a slipepry slope, just stay strong and remember your not as big a minority as you might think.

[Cyberman]

From my experience if all you do at work is talk about work and only work. That has very negative affects on productivity, I work for engineering firm as the IT department technician. I can tell you if I did not randomly talk about other things besidies work I would go postal.

Well, back when I was a civil servant at the DWP - and I hope my former line manager isn't reading this - I used to spend most of my time on the internet anyway. One of my colleagues practically ran an Ebay business on the side. As for non-work related conversation, aside from griping about customers and just general gossip , it could range from films to sport via sex (and often all three, concurrent or consecutive).

[Silver]

I would not worry myself over them not talking to me. Of course, being antisocial to a major degree, it would not affect me as it obviously affects others. Some people need attention from those around them, but one should never base her self worth on whether others include or exclude.

[thesummerqueen]

From my experience if all you do at work is talk about work and only work. That has very negative affects on productivity, I work for engineering firm as the IT department technician. I can tell you if I did not randomly talk about other things besidies work I would go postal.

I would not worry myself over them not talking to me. Of course, being antisocial to a major degree, it would not affect me as it obviously affects others. Some people need attention from those around them, but one should never base her self worth on whether others include or exclude.

Blade, I know you addressed it later, but both of you sort of missed the point with your responses:

She's not worried about self-worth or the content of conversation necessarily - merely being able to get her job done, which can't be done if people don't respond.