Locked in the dogma

[Little Rik]

Unfortunately the process of control evolution is unable to go over the border of reason and therefore to decide what is good or bad in order to progress as the consciousness is concern.
Without the consciousness the vehicle can still move if programmed to do so but no real progress is made.
In other words is all in vain.
The day you will be able to give a consciousness to a robot let me know.
I will give you countless of Kudus.

Ah yes, being proved wrong on the point, you simply move the goalposts from a robot requiring a mind to program it to the robot not being demonstrably conscious.
Tell me how you know that a robot which can learn to move on its own cannot become conscious by the same route?
People might take you more seriously about the ineffable if you demonstrated sound reasoning about the effable.

Proven wrong?
Not at all.
As far as your robot is programmed to do only the right thing and not to think with his own free will which of course is lacking there is no way that this state of doing things will ever lead to progress in his own conscious which of course is lacking.
In other words as i already said it will be all in vain as far as individual progress.
As far as material-scientific development it will be a success but here we are not talking about this.
Here we are talking about minds with free will and free will is sentient unlike your robot that lack this important factor so a robot without free will can not be sentient as you claim.
Now the fact that this robot will be able to drive the car mean absolutely nothing. It is like a body carried by artificial means.
The progress will only be in the physical sphere, not certainly in the consciousness one which is not present.
Would you really care what happen to your body when you are not connected to it anymore?

[downbeatplumb]

Proven wrong?
Not at all.
As far as your robot is programmed to do only the right thing and not to think with his own free will which of course is lacking there is no way that this state of doing things will ever lead to progress in his own conscious which of course is lacking.
In other words as i already said it will be all in vain as far as individual progress.
As far as material-scientific development it will be a success but here we are not talking about this.
Here we are talking about minds with free will and free will is sentient unlike your robot that lack this important factor so a robot without free will can not be sentient as you claim.
Now the fact that this robot will be able to drive the car mean absolutely nothing. It is like a body carried by artificial means.
The progress will only be in the physical sphere, not certainly in the consciousness one which is not present.
Would you really care what happen to your body when you are not connected to it anymore?

Except of course that the brain has developed through evolution to produce he thing that you say requires a programmer.
It does not.

[Little Rik]

And now an atheist dogma..........i can not see or perceive God so it does not exist.
Well, maybe if you try to look inside and not outside you may well start to perceive that essence.

That.... is when you enter the realm of psychology.
Look inwards for the answer.... sounds a lot like self-delusion.
An entity capable of creating the Universe shouldn't be perceivable only by "looking inwards".
"Look inwards" sounds like a person trying to convince another of something that is impossible to experience, unless you convince yourself of it, in the first place.
And that's why I refuse any such argument.

This is an interesting argument.
If you look outward you can see the physical-material world and also this is part and parcel of God but to see God in all his effulgence you got to go much further and see all the transformation that took place before his imagination created this physical-material world.
According to yoga creation start with pure consciousness and in his imagination he created space, air, light, water, and solid factor.
These are 7 factors like the seven cakras or main glands that control these factors in our existence.
Also in the christian believe it is said that God created the world in seven days but of course the real knowledge about how the system works has been totally lost.
It is not that God created this universe and then let it be without any intervention. It is that the creation keep on going for ever in this or in any other universe or dimension.
So when i say that to experience God one has got to go inwards i mean to work on higher cakras or glands like the pineal one which is the ultimate goal of life.
If you only look at this material world you only can experience the last transformation of the imagination of God into matter and of course this reality is billion of years far away from his reality and effulgence.
That is why one should look inwards where the higher glands that control mind and spirit are.
When you are able to bring all your propensity from the lower gland that control the matter to the higher gland (pineal) that control the spirit then you not only can see God but you become one with it like when a drop of water merge in the ocean she become the ocean herself.

Some 100,000 years ago, humanity came across the concept of divine. If the deity was a real thing, there was some physical interaction (how else would humans have come up with it?) and was not just mental masturbation.

These people only glorify the phenomena that give light, heat or whatever they need in their daily life like the sun, the rain and so on.
As far as real essence of the divine it was a remote thing.

I eagerly await for that deity to perform the same kind of interaction with me.Thus far, I have nothing of the sort. So I default to "there is nothing of the sort".

I am afraid that you will have to wait a lot longer unless you do something about.
Now i am going to explain to you through an analogy (something that our friend Stimbo hate so don't tell him eh)
If you want to perceive God you got to establish a good relationship with him.
Suppose you are looking for a lover.
What you do?
Do you just sit in your lounge in your house watching tv waiting that a suitable lover come knocking your door and say.......hello, ciao bello....i just felt that you were looking for me so here i am!!!
Of course it does not work like this.
You got to go around and around before you find something interesting.
Not only this but you must have a strong desire.
Only with strong desire you can draw his attention.
If the desire to find him is very strong then you don't even need to go around the world to find him.
He will manifest in you.

---

Proven wrong?
Not at all.
As far as your robot is programmed to do only the right thing and not to think with his own free will which of course is lacking there is no way that this state of doing things will ever lead to progress in his own conscious which of course is lacking.
In other words as i already said it will be all in vain as far as individual progress.
As far as material-scientific development it will be a success but here we are not talking about this.
Here we are talking about minds with free will and free will is sentient unlike your robot that lack this important factor so a robot without free will can not be sentient as you claim.
Now the fact that this robot will be able to drive the car mean absolutely nothing. It is like a body carried by artificial means.
The progress will only be in the physical sphere, not certainly in the consciousness one which is not present.
Would you really care what happen to your body when you are not connected to it anymore?

Except of course that the brain has developed through evolution to produce he thing that you say requires a programmer.
It does not.

What is developing is the consciousness.
The brain only get more sophisticate as it must get in tune with the changes in the individual consciousness.
So is not up to the brain to dictate the progress but up to the consciousness.
A robot can not improve for the simple reason that it lack in consciousness.

[Cyberman]

Now I know you've definitely got me confused with someone else, because I love analogies. In fact, analogies to me are like anal orgies; very accomodating, deeply satisfying, and as a means to an end a most useful tool in the box.

[Angrboda]

You ignored my question as to how you know this to be true about the possible evolution of a robot, and continue to spout dogma.

I've been practicing yoga for 30 years, and my conclusion is that you are deluded and wrong. Yay, yoga!

[pocaracas]

That.... is when you enter the realm of psychology.
Look inwards for the answer.... sounds a lot like self-delusion.
An entity capable of creating the Universe shouldn't be perceivable only by "looking inwards".
"Look inwards" sounds like a person trying to convince another of something that is impossible to experience, unless you convince yourself of it, in the first place.
And that's why I refuse any such argument.

This is an interesting argument.
If you look outward you can see the physical-material world and also this is part and parcel of God but to see God in all his effulgence you got to go much further and see all the transformation that took place before his imagination created this physical-material world.
According to yoga creation start with pure consciousness and in his imagination he created space, air, light, water, and solid factor.
These are 7 factors like the seven cakras or main glands that control these factors in our existence.
Also in the christian believe it is said that God created the world in seven days but of course the real knowledge about how the system works has been totally lost.
It is not that God created this universe and then let it be without any intervention. It is that the creation keep on going for ever in this or in any other universe or dimension.
So when i say that to experience God one has got to go inwards i mean to work on higher cakras or glands like the pineal one which is the ultimate goal of life.
If you only look at this material world you only can experience the last transformation of the imagination of God into matter and of course this reality is billion of years far away from his reality and effulgence.
That is why one should look inwards where the higher glands that control mind and spirit are.
When you are able to bring all your propensity from the lower gland that control the matter to the higher gland (pineal) that control the spirit then you not only can see God but you become one with it like when a drop of water merge in the ocean she become the ocean herself.

So it's all about getting a gland to function a bit more than it should? Hence generating a different mental perception of the world?
First, this is all working on some physical process.
Second, it's still a way of convincing yourself of something that's not there... it's only that your gland is working wrong and giving you a highly inaccurate impression of reality.

[Little Rik]

apophenia...............You ignored my question as to how you know this to be true about the possible evolution of a robot, and continue to spout dogma.

There is material-physical evolution and there is spiritual evolution.
You are talking about the first while i am talking about the latter.
Who care if the vehicle is driven by an other vehicle?
In this way there can not be any spiritual progress because there is no one with consciousness to progress.
I am sure that in the near future babies will born in laboratories with a soul and consciousness but this will be different from your robot which is programmed by humans to do only the right thing.

I've been practicing yoga for 30 years, and my conclusion is that you are deluded and wrong. Yay, yoga!

After what you are writing i doubt very much that you know what yoga is but tell me......what yoga have you been practicing and what is the meaning of yoga, please tell me out of your heart-mind not by looking at wikipedia or else.

---

This is an interesting argument.
If you look outward you can see the physical-material world and also this is part and parcel of God but to see God in all his effulgence you got to go much further and see all the transformation that took place before his imagination created this physical-material world.
According to yoga creation start with pure consciousness and in his imagination he created space, air, light, water, and solid factor.
These are 7 factors like the seven cakras or main glands that control these factors in our existence.
Also in the christian believe it is said that God created the world in seven days but of course the real knowledge about how the system works has been totally lost.
It is not that God created this universe and then let it be without any intervention. It is that the creation keep on going for ever in this or in any other universe or dimension.
So when i say that to experience God one has got to go inwards i mean to work on higher cakras or glands like the pineal one which is the ultimate goal of life.
If you only look at this material world you only can experience the last transformation of the imagination of God into matter and of course this reality is billion of years far away from his reality and effulgence.
That is why one should look inwards where the higher glands that control mind and spirit are.
When you are able to bring all your propensity from the lower gland that control the matter to the higher gland (pineal) that control the spirit then you not only can see God but you become one with it like when a drop of water merge in the ocean she become the ocean herself.

So it's all about getting a gland to function a bit more than it should? Hence generating a different mental perception of the world?
First, this is all working on some physical process.

The pineal gland beside secreting an hormone is also the connection to the spiritual dimension but if you never practice spirituality you would not know this reality.

Second, it's still a way of convincing yourself of something that's not there... it's only that your gland is working wrong and giving you a highly inaccurate impression of reality.

So i am not the only one that got the glands working wrong.
I shell tell million of people who practice yoga in the present and in the past that they are ALL wrong.
You are very funny.

[pocaracas]

So it's all about getting a gland to function a bit more than it should? Hence generating a different mental perception of the world?
First, this is all working on some physical process.

The pineal gland beside secreting an hormone is also the connection to the spiritual dimension but if you never practice spirituality you would not know this reality.

Second, it's still a way of convincing yourself of something that's not there... it's only that your gland is working wrong and giving you a highly inaccurate impression of reality.

So i am not the only one that got the glands working wrong.
I shell tell million of people who practice yoga in the present and in the past that they are ALL wrong.
You are very funny.

Well, this is wrong:

The pineal gland beside secreting an hormone is also the connection to the spiritual dimension but if you never practice spirituality you would not know this reality.

I don't know about the other people, but you seem convinced of something which isn't there.
A gland responsible for "the connection to the spiritual dimension"...
Tell me what is this "spiritual dimension"?
How does the gland work that enables such a connection?

[Little Rik]

pocaracas..............I don't know about the other people, but you seem convinced of something which isn't there.

Yoga is the oldest science dating 7000 years back so is natural that you do not know other people.
I also do not know people who live 7000 years ago at the time of Shiva but i know people who live today that practice yoga and i know that this is the same yoga practiced 7000 years ago.

A gland responsible for "the connection to the spiritual dimension"...
Tell me what is this "spiritual dimension"?

You think of something.
In your imagination you may create an elephant eating something.
The elephant is an imagination of your mind. Is not real but it takes life in your imagination.
When you withdraw from your imagination that reality that reality come back in your mind.
Spirituality is when the physical reality go back to the reality of the thinker.
The thinker transform his-her wave thought in space-air-light-water-solid and here we have the universe.
The solid matter then travel the opposite direction in order to go back to the thinker mind.
So after the creation we have the evolution that allow the fundamental factors to go back to the thinker (God).
Uranium is among the older matter and the energy in it want to escape in order to evolve in something more sophisticate.
It will turn in different form of energy and then will follow the scale of evolution (plant, animal, human) until will merge in the cosmic mind.
So spirituality is the effort of going back were we really belong.

How does the gland work that enables such a connection?

The pineal gland is where the cosmic consciousness is.
In order to bring our consciousness up to that point we must give up our physical-material propensity.
In other words we should realize that this body and mind are vehicles that help to go ahead not our real I.

[pocaracas]

I'm speechless...


you better lay off the