Death without Dying

[Retorth]

Now I wanna put forward a few situations to consider.
When you are drunk, are you the same person?
When you get so drunk that you wake up not remembering last night (memory loss), is the person who experienced those memories "dead"?
Does a person with temporary amnesia suffer a temporary death and slowly come back to life? At which point are they the same person? How many of their memories must they re-acquire to be the same person they were before an accident? I think the line is very ambiguous, but nontheless interesting.

There certainly are interesting scenarios to consider. One thing they all have in common is that they are temporary situations. The word "dead" itself refers to "the end" AKA "no turning back" so I think for these situations it would be inapplicable.

They are more like "temporary blanks", in that respect.

[LukeMC]

No, because even if you are completely different under the influence of drugs, you still have memories and the condition will go away.

To what extent do insanely drunk people have access to their memories while they're drunk? For the time being, they are changed. Their personality dies. Come the next day they're back, of course, but while drunk to such an extent, they can kill off virtually all of their personality. I'm not talking about slightly tipsy and mediumly stoned. I'm talking totally gone. Obviously I'm not comparing it to your death without dying completely, but only feeding it as an idea if people are going to say memory loss = death of personality. It's a temporary death.

[fr0d0]

Having only been very drunk once that I can remember - I quite quickly went unconscious. Is that level of drunkenness, where you don't remember anything, something that happens after you lose motor control? Is that really anything at all going on? ie why consider it?

Or are you saying this drunken state is completely detached from our every day state?

[theVOID]

No, because even if you are completely different under the influence of drugs, you still have memories and the condition will go away.

To what extent do insanely drunk people have access to their memories while they're drunk? For the time being, they are changed. Their personality dies. Come the next day they're back, of course, but while drunk to such an extent, they can kill off virtually all of their personality. I'm not talking about slightly tipsy and mediumly stoned. I'm talking totally gone. Obviously I'm not comparing it to your death without dying completely, but only feeding it as an idea if people are going to say memory loss = death of personality. It's a temporary death.

Well they know where they live, what beer they like, who they know and are still very much themselves - just loud and stupid. As a regular drinker i can vouch for that.

No drug would create a complete loss of personality, just a temporary altercation in a number of senses.

[Eilonnwy]

To what extent do insanely drunk people have access to their memories while they're drunk? For the time being, they are changed. Their personality dies. Come the next day they're back, of course, but while drunk to such an extent, they can kill off virtually all of their personality. I'm not talking about slightly tipsy and mediumly stoned. I'm talking totally gone. Obviously I'm not comparing it to your death without dying completely, but only feeding it as an idea if people are going to say memory loss = death of personality. It's a temporary death.

I said repeatedly, part of the condition of being dead without dying is that there is no way you can come back, so temporary or not, it's irrelevant.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

To what extent do insanely drunk people have access to their memories while they're drunk?

Well I can only speak for this recovering alcoholic. When off my face, I DIDN'T NOTICE anything unusual about my memory.

However, I did have problems with what's called "alcohol-related amnesia" (blackouts) whereby you do things whilst drunk of which you have no memory when sober.

EG I once lost a half full 5 litre cask of wine.I found it three days later in the washing machine. OK,that's a little odd,but blackouts can be dangerous, such as getting into a car and driving; people get killed.

WARNING PREACHY BIT (ignore this bit if you like)

IF you have a blackout when drunk,EVER, you and alcohol are not friends. You may ALREADY have a problem..

A blackout is a phenomenon caused by the intake of alcohol in which long term memory creation is impaired or there is a complete inability to recall the past. Blackouts are frequently described as having effects similar to that of anterograde amnesia, where the subject literally does not remember what has happened in the recent past. 'Blacking out' is not to be confused with the mutually exclusive act of 'passing out', which means loss of consciousness. Research on alcohol blackouts was begun by E. M. Jellinek in the 1940s. Using data from a survey of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) members, he came to believe that blackouts would be a good predictor of alcoholism. [1] However, there are conflicting views as to whether or not this is true. [2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_%2...amnesia%29

[Eilonnwy]

I have never had a black out, no matter how drunk I have gotten I can recall things. I don't think blackouts is a sure indicator of alcoholism, but if you consistently have blackouts then it could be.

Padraic, you say you are a rec overing alcoholic...are you in AA?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Padraic, you say you are a recovering alcoholic...are you in AA?

Yes,although I rarely go to to meetings these days.

AA helped me a lot ,especially for the first year. I will go whenever I get ratty. (REALLY thirsty)

So far so good. I've been sober 7 years,2 months and 2 weeks exactly.

I recommend AA to any suffering alcoholic.My home group is about 40% atheist. (around 40-50 members,it varies). There are a lot more atheist in AA than most people are aware and AA will admit.At least here in Australia, which is a lot less rabidly religious than the US.

AA did not get me sober,nor did any higher power. I got me sober,by first wanting to stop,for my own sake,then by seeking and accepting help from a range of sources. I quite a 70 day smoking addiction the same way 6 months later.I had my last cigarette 14 Jan 2003.


I boast about this because it's one of the few things in my life about which think I have the right to feel proud. AND to show it can be done.

[leo-rcc]

I am not sure that the AA would be my first choice given this "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" and "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him" crap. But if it helps you out, I am very glad for you.

[Edwardo Piet]

Same, if it helps you out, that's what matters.

I love South Park's take on AA lol. Bloody Mary is a hilarious episode.

EvF