Atheism and morality

[simplexity]

If you accept that morality does not really exist if atheism is true, then you agree with me. YOu accept that no acts are really right or wrong if atheism is true.

How are no acts 'really' right or wrong if atheism isn't true? How do I know these 'instructions' are really right? Who is this god person anyway?

We as humanity make something right or wrong, based on our understanding of the universe around us, and how, subjectively we 'feel' about certain things. And we can quite literally, feel the pain of others around us. I find that plenty fine.

[Psykhronic]

Because... you said so?

Er, no. I've argued why umpteen times. Only the instructions of an agent who has control over your interests in an afterlife would be ones we'd always have reason to comply with whatever she wished us to do. Moral instructions are instructions we have reason to comply with whatever it instructs us to do. So far as I can see, then, that's the only way something with all the characteristics of a moral instruction can exist: it requires a god.

And this all sounds like you just saying shit. Carry on, I accidentally replied to this thread thinking it was another.

[Inigo]

If you accept that morality does not really exist if atheism is true, then you agree with me. YOu accept that no acts are really right or wrong if atheism is true.

How are no acts 'really' right or wrong if atheism isn't true? How do I know these 'instructions' are really right? Who is this god person anyway?

We as humanity make something right or wrong, based on our understanding of the universe around us, and how, subjectively we 'feel' about certain things. And we can quite literally, feel the pain of others around us. I find that plenty fine.

No, moral instructions are not instructions we issue to ourselves because those instructions would not have inescapable rational authority.

We can't make something right or wrong. Try it. Solve world injustice by just instructing yourself to promote world poverty. That would make world poverty 'morally good' if your view is correct. So just try it. Try it right now - issue an instruction to yourself to promote world poverty and see if world poverty ceases to be unjust.

It won't, will it? The wrongness of an act is not to do with you. You didn't make it wrong. Why? because morality instructs and its instructions have inescapable rational authority. You can instruct, but your instructions lack inescapable rational authority.

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Er, no. I've argued why umpteen times. Only the instructions of an agent who has control over your interests in an afterlife would be ones we'd always have reason to comply with whatever she wished us to do. Moral instructions are instructions we have reason to comply with whatever it instructs us to do. So far as I can see, then, that's the only way something with all the characteristics of a moral instruction can exist: it requires a god.

And this all sounds like you just saying shit. Carry on, I accidentally replied to this thread thinking it was another.

What an intelligent response. Well worth making. Well done. You are a great mind.

[simplexity]

How are no acts 'really' right or wrong if atheism isn't true? How do I know these 'instructions' are really right? Who is this god person anyway?

We as humanity make something right or wrong, based on our understanding of the universe around us, and how, subjectively we 'feel' about certain things. And we can quite literally, feel the pain of others around us. I find that plenty fine.

We can't make something right or wrong. Try it. Solve world injustice by just instructing yourself to promote world poverty. That would make world poverty 'morally good' if your view is correct. So just try it. Try it right now - issue an instruction to yourself to promote world poverty and see if world poverty ceases to be unjust.

I don't think you read my post. There was a part about the rest of humanity in there somewhere, and the part about the pain of others. Obviously, world poverty would still be wrong, because subjectively I feel that I would not want that, and if more people had it, it would add to my suffering.

[paulpablo]

We can't make something right or wrong. Try it. Solve world injustice by just instructing yourself to promote world poverty. That would make world poverty 'morally good' if your view is correct. So just try it. Try it right now - issue an instruction to yourself to promote world poverty and see if world poverty ceases to be unjust.

Sorry I misread the statement.
World poverty would be a problem surely because of survival instincts? And empathy?

[Psykhronic]

What an intelligent response. Well worth making. Well done. You are a great mind.

Just like all your responses and posts - it truly takes one to know one, at least in your case.

[simplexity]

For the last time Inigo, there is no evidence pointing to the fact that morality is a 'thing'. However, there is evidence it does exist as a concept.

[Inigo]

We can't make something right or wrong. Try it. Solve world injustice by just instructing yourself to promote world poverty. That would make world poverty 'morally good' if your view is correct. So just try it. Try it right now - issue an instruction to yourself to promote world poverty and see if world poverty ceases to be unjust.

I don't think you read my post. There was a part about the rest of humanity in there somewhere, and the part about the pain of others. Obviously, world poverty would still be wrong, because subjectively I feel that I would not want that, and if more people had it, it would add to my suffering.

So in your view the wrongness of promoting world poverty consists in the fact you dislike world poverty and instruct yourself not to promote it? Yes?

Well, that instruction lacks inescapable rational authority. You only have reason to comply with that instruction if you happen to want to. if you stop caring, then you lack any real reason to comply.

This is an enormous difference between your instructions and the instructions of morality. They are not one and the same.

IF atheism is true, then the only instructions that really exist are yours and those of other people. But none of those instructions have inescapable rational authority. None of them, then, can be one and the same as the instructions of morality. Consequently, if atheism is true moral instructions do not really exist. They appear to exist, but appearing to exist and existing are different.

[simplexity]

No, moral instructions are not instructions we issue to ourselves because those instructions would not have inescapable rational authority.

Moral instructions do not have inescapable rational authority. Sometimes they are rational. Sometimes they are not. I don't see a problem. What's rational subjectively is not always what is rational when you look at the whole picture. Thinking has it's purpose.

[paulpablo]

I don't think you read my post. There was a part about the rest of humanity in there somewhere, and the part about the pain of others. Obviously, world poverty would still be wrong, because subjectively I feel that I would not want that, and if more people had it, it would add to my suffering.

So in your view the wrongness of promoting world poverty consists in the fact you dislike world poverty and instruct yourself not to promote it? Yes?

Well, that instruction lacks inescapable rational authority. You only have reason to comply with that instruction if you happen to want to. if you stop caring, then you lack any real reason to comply.

This is an enormous difference between your instructions and the instructions of morality. They are not one and the same.

IF atheism is true, then the only instructions that really exist are yours and those of other people. But none of those instructions have inescapable rational authority. None of them, then, can be one and the same as the instructions of morality. Consequently, if atheism is true moral instructions do not really exist. They appear to exist, but appearing to exist and existing are different.

Can you tell me an instruction from god which you have received which you have found to be inescapable?