Libertarian Fuckballs Expose Themselves

[The Grand Nudger]

My arguments for lowering / scrapping the minimum wage would actually benefit small business owners who maybe cannot afford to pay minimum wage for certain types of labor.

Subsidizing their poor business model by sliding the bill over to health and human misery/poverty - I'd say. I'm racking my brain trying to think of an item that a human being (any human being) could spend an hour working without adding enough value to that item to warrant more than a single dollar for that labor. I'm drawing a blank.

You realize that it wouldn't be "employees worth less than $1 an hour" that get paid 1$ an hour, yeah? It would be any employee an employer can legally pay 1$ an hour getting paid 1$ an hour.

[Tiberius]

Subsidizing their poor business model by sliding the bill over to health and human misery/poverty - I'd say. I'm racking my brain trying to think of an item that a human being (any human being) could spend an hour working without adding enough value to that item to warrant more than a single dollar for that labor. I'm drawing a blank.

I'm not necessarily talking about work that directly affects things to be sold. For instance, at a hairdressers the floor needs regular sweeping to keep it clean. That sweeping doesn't directly affect anything the hairdresser makes money off (though it does indirectly because people are more likely to get haircuts there, etc.), and such a menial task that requires no skill might not be worth whatever the government sets minimum wage at.

You realize that it wouldn't be "employees worth less than $1 an hour" that get paid 1$ an hour, yeah? It would be any employee an employer can legally pay 1$ an hour getting paid 1$ an hour.

I've explained this before; it's not how the economy works. You wouldn't pay a supermarket $20 for a loaf of bread, but the supermarket wouldn't sell it for less than a dollar. The price you pay is somewhere in the middle; otherwise you go somewhere else for your bread. The same applies with employment. If you have skills in some area, you aren't going to accept a $1 an hour wage, but your employer might not want to pay anything over $20 an hour. Again, the wage is set to some value in between, where both parties are happy. If you aren't happy, go somewhere else for a job.

If you really think that scrapping the minimum wage would suddenly mean companies paying "any" employee minimum wage, you are having a laugh. If that were true, why don't all companies pay their workers minimum wage already?

[downbeatplumb]

Some jobs are simply not worth the minimum wage. Being able to hire more people for the same amount of money also decreases unemployment.

The minimum is there so that people can be able to live on it.
If you cant live on the wage what is the point of earning it?

[Tiberius]

The minimum is there so that people can be able to live on it.
If you cant live on the wage what is the point of earning it?

Many people live on absolutely no wage at all. My view has always been that earning some money is better than earning no money at all.

If the government sets a minimum wage, they are effectively saying "no job is worth less than this", which in many cases simply isn't true.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not necessarily talking about work that directly affects things to be sold. For instance, at a hairdressers the floor needs regular sweeping to keep it clean. That sweeping doesn't directly affect anything the hairdresser makes money off (though it does indirectly because people are more likely to get haircuts there, etc.), and such a menial task that requires no skill might not be worth whatever the government sets minimum wage at.

Keeping the workplace clean and free of clutter is important. An hours worth of cleaning something is most definitely worth more than 1$.

I've explained this before; it's not how the economy works. You wouldn't pay a supermarket $20 for a loaf of bread, but the supermarket wouldn't sell it for less than a dollar. The price you pay is somewhere in the middle; otherwise you go somewhere else for your bread. The same applies with employment. If you have skills in some area, you aren't going to accept a $1 an hour wage, but your employer might not want to pay anything over $20 an hour.

I think that the scenario you're imagining doesn't really apply to minim wage (an below minimum wage) jobs. A minimum wage employer is willing to pay somewhere between minimum wage - and minimum wage, round these parts. He'd pay you less if he could. You're not negotiating anything with this employer.

If you really think that scrapping the minimum wage would suddenly mean companies paying "any" employee minimum wage, you are having a laugh. If that were true, why don't all companies pay their workers minimum wage already?

The smart personnel guy gets as much as possible for his labor dollar, does he not? Take our big box store, now that I'm reminded of it. One of the reasons they've been so successful is that they pay minimum wage, and keep hours so low they did not have to offer any benefits. You expect me to conclude that when given this wonderful new cost cutting tool (abolishing minimum wage)....that businesses aren't going to use it?

There are already plenty of people at or below minimum wage (in this country anyway, maybe it;s better over there), if they could be paid less, employers -would- pay them less...as evidenced by the fact that they are being paid minimum wages. Here, in the us, minimum wage employees can't afford food, btw. They can't afford to buy a commodity whose producers receive massive subsidies and can already pay employees less than minimum wage (that's what welfares all about buddy). I'm just not seeing any benefit to society in creating an even further impoverished class. If you ever want an example of the effects of being able to abrogate minimum wage laws have on an industry, it's employers, and society as a whole- look no further.

[Isun]

Not only that, but the taxpayer ends up subsidizing the wages of company's like wal mart causing additional expenses and deficit spending. Of course if you are conservative you would think they should pay more taxes then the rich and wealthy.

I have never understood that idea and as to trickle down theory, that has never worked in the past an no reason to think it will suddenly start to work.

[festive1]

This seems an apt place to mention this. From the August 2013 edition of Harper's Index:

Percentage change in the number of Wal*Mart stores nationwide since 2008: +13
In the size of Wal*Mart's retail workforce: 0

Sited from Wal*Mart's own documentation.
Corporations pay minimum wage, but hire only part-time employees to dodge having to pay them benefits. They cut their workforce, yet continue to expand. They aren't interested in bolstering the economy at large. They are only interested in bolstering their own profits.

Cap'n, I commend you for doing what you want with your life and valuing your happiness over money. However, not everyone can or wants to live as you do. While anyone who has access to clean, running water and electricity is, globally speaking, wealthy, income disparity is not going to be remedied by everyone dropping off the grid. It's income disparity and lack of social mobility that's the problem. There was an interesting panel discussion of this on Bill Maher this week.... I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Isun]

What Wal Mart is doing is partially responsible for the declining economy in the US. Whenever a Wal Mart is created, the economy declines in the community they reside. Through lower pay to employees leading to less available funds for other stores. Because of their low prices, they drive local businesses (small businesses) out of business causing a net job loss.

http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/news/2011-01-...-taxpayers

[cratehorus]

six thousand dollars here in this small town in Arizona wouldn't pay for a years rent in a small, wimpy trailer, gas (or buses), food or second hand clothing. With 6 grand you can get a six months rent in a house, not including food, gas, etc. Just the rent. Just six months. People need to eat. Don't forget the cost of living depending where you're at.

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Where are you from?

If I recall correctly, he lives with his girlfriend, in her van. Apologies if my recollection is mistaken.