(July 20, 2013 at 6:52 pm)Tiberius Wrote:(July 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm)christcahinkilla Wrote: let me put this in the most simple basic terms possible.OK.
Quote:theist - believe but can't proveThose are far from the most simple terms possible. The most simple terms would be:
atheist - don't believe but can't prove
Theist - person who believes in the existence of God.
Atheist - person who does not believe in the existence of God.
No need to use "proof" in the definition at all.
Quote:theses are both beliefs, they are conclusions without experimentationWell, some might claim they have experimented. Whether those experiments were valid or not is different. For instance, a theist may experiment by praying for something and see if their prayer is answered, and choose to believe based on the results of their prayer.
Quote:agnostic - i do not knowThe definition of agnostic is indeed "I do not know", but understand that the agnostic is not saying "I do not know what I believe". Rather, they are saying "I do not know if God exists."
This is a position on knowledge of God, rather than belief in God. Thus, one can combine atheism and agnosticism, or theism and agnosticism quite easily, since belief and knowledge are related, but are not the same.
For instance, one can believe something without having actual knowledge of it. I can believe it is raining outside without being outside, based on anything from looking out of the window to listening to the pitter patter of raindrops on the roof. Note that you can be wrong about beliefs; by definition they are not necessarily true. Keeping with the raindrop example, I could be wrong about my belief that it is raining outside. Perhaps someone is squirting water down the window pane, or spraying it on the roof instead.
An agnostic atheist is someone who does not believe in God, but does not claim to know that God does not exist. An agnostic theist makes the same claim for knowledge, but believes in God instead.
Conversely, a gnostic atheist is someone who does not believe in God and also claims to know that God does not exist. A gnostic theist is someone who believes in God and claims to know that God does exist.
So we go right back to old wise Tiberius and Kichi's points, to conclude that this thread was a bullshit claim. 9 pages later.
What's your deal new guy? You can claim to know there is no god but in the end, you don't know you just believe you know. Belief and knowledge are two very, very different things. Write that down.

If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)