Atheists go to Heaven too

[PeterPriesthood]

I always find amusing the Mormom practice of distancing themselves from Christians. You're a Christian, mate. Deal with it.

You're in luck! I do consider myself a Christian. I believe in Christ after all.

Has it occured to you that ALL religions have claimed that their prophets told them 'the words of God'? You lot simply suffer from the same delusion.

It has occurred to me. You may be right, but I'm going to go with the answers I receive from the Holy Ghost on this one. That is more real to me than anything else I can perceive in this world. It makes me feel closer to God when I pray for guidance.

lol, you don't know any of that. You merely believe it, which is not the same thing at all.

I know it's difficult to understand how someone can know something that's not seen. As you would see my knowing something because I feel it as the start of a bit of circular logic, the concept of the eternity of God as an eternal round is also circular in definition. Mortal men cannot possibly understand this concept, but we have to trust that this explanation will suffice until we can think as God does. We will have to wait for the Resurrection before we can get to that point.

Partly you are, yes. But primarily, you're simply one of the duped Mormon masses taken in by the fraudulent, semi-literate criminal, Joseph Smith.

I think people said that about Moses too, but even with his more articulate brother Aaron as his mouthpiece, he was still able to lead Israel from bondage in Egypt.

Being wrongfully accused as a Conman doesn't make a personal a real criminal...just documented as one.

God's ways are not our own, so we can't expect everything all at once. I believe that we receive knowledge line upon line, precept upon precept.

Given that all religions - every single one - are man-made, you're dead wrong. God's ways ARE our ways, you just have your word order muddled up.

You're right! I would have that order muddled up if there wasn't a God. Faith is an important component in order to find out if there is one though. Once we find out that God is real, and once we find out what his will is, only then can we start the path to exaltation.

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If we all go to heaven, then why did god bother to write so many versions of holy books to "guide" people? To what end, if we all go to heaven? Why don't you join us godless people and have all the fun you want in this lifetime, and go to heaven in the next, just like us?

I could do that. I would still receive a degree of glory. However, I wish to attain the highest degree of glory, and within that Kingdom I want to receive exaltation on high. To walk in the presence of our Heavenly Father is the greatest gift he can one day give us, and he's given us a way to prepare for that. Earth is a test for mortals, after all.

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I know you don't think so now, but you might sing a different tune once you know what's in store for you.

Intereseting variation of xtian cliché #40.

I enjoyed that! I suppose there will be many more as long as I'm around. ...I almost imagined in real time how all your eyes just rolled at that.

[Whateverist]

Why don't you join us godless people and have all the fun you want in this lifetime, and go to heaven in the next, just like us?

I could do that. I would still receive a degree of glory. However, I wish to attain the highest degree of glory, and within that Kingdom I want to receive exaltation on high. To walk in the presence of our Heavenly Father is the greatest gift he can one day give us, and he's given us a way to prepare for that. Earth is a test for mortals, after all.

Looks like we finally found something to disagree on. Turns out earth is heaven. Religion was invented by the devil to tempt you away from our divine mother earth. You have been deceived. Repent and learn to love this place, this time and this earth before you miss out forever.

[Captain Colostomy]

...if there is a commandment passed down from on high that we are never in the wrong for following it. If the Prophet leads us astray, then the burden of guilt is with him, and not us sheeple.

This line of reasoning is similar to how Nazi underlings defended themselves at the Nurenburg Trials. Allowing for the fact J. Smith wasn't Hitler, how do you reconcile blind obedience with zero culpability?

[Cato]

I'm ok hanging out in the Telestial level for awhile, but only under two conditions:
1. Free unlimited supply of beer
2. You proper Mormons promise to stay upstairs in the Celestial level and not bother us.

[PeterPriesthood]

Hey priest!
How do you react to the claims that Joseph Smith was a known conman?

I agree that he was convicted as such. Was Moses a known murderer? Yes, but he was still God's prophet at that time.

Also how do you account for his translation of the Book of Mormon from the tablets? He translated it in the 19th century but used 17th century English?

He did that, didn't he? I suppose he wanted it to be more relatable to the KJV, so that the people of the time could see that it was another Testament of Jesus Christ.

Do you honestly believe the whole story that he was visited by an angel who was a white Native American, then he found the tablets in a hill, then he translated them by looking into a hat, then he lost the translations and had to do it again but held a blanket inbetween him and the scribe. Doesn't that seem a little farfetched?

It's farfetched. Sure. God's work has never been an easy matter. When those initial 116 pages of the Book of Mormon were lost, Joseph was informed that he could not retranslate them in case the lost pages resurfaced and were altered by evil men. An altered manuscript would cast doubt on Joseph's ability to translate, and his credibility in the eyes of those who believed him would be lost.

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I'm ok hanging out in the Telestial level for awhile, but only under two conditions:
1. Free unlimited supply of beer
2. You proper Mormons promise to stay upstairs in the Celestial level and not bother us.

I don't think you would go to the Telestial Kingdom...unless you're a murderer or a Rapist. Everyone who commits such sins must forgo living in the presence of Christ in the Terrestrial Kingdom.

I'll come visit you there and share a beer with you...would that be okay?

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He, like all Mormons, preach Free Will, or Free Agency, but the secret is that this so-called agency isn't free at all. According to his religion, God's plan is in place, and we have no choice in any of the matters.

I never said our Agency was Free. We have agency, but this is something God has gifted us with, and this is only within the bounds of his glory. You cannot attain that which God does not allow.

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Do you guys really believe that you get your own planet in the afterlife?

I think I'm going to see if I can wrangle up a whole slew of planets.

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1. I believe we have a living prophet on earth.

I'd never heard of this living prophet thing before. So that's your elected president? Kinda pope substitute?

Surely direct contact with actual God trumps a 3rd party?

Papalcies are an evil device put in place by the Catholic Church to control people by giving them man-made, immutable dogma to follow. Indeed, I agree with the Book of Mormon that this religion is the Whore of the Earth.

No, the Prophet is fallible, like any man, but we believe that he is the only one that can receive revelation for the entire Church. If everyone thought they were receiving lines of advice from God for other people, the entire Church would crumble from inconsistent doctrines and practices! 3rd party is where it's at!

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That settles it. Do not, I repeat, do not baptize me after I'm dead. One lifetime with my family is all that anyone should be asked to endure, especially my older brother and father. My older brother has actually become a Mormon. There is no damned way I'll join his overbearing ass on Kolob or Krypton or any where else. Not in this life time nor any other.

Hear hear! I just had a family reunion, and it was not a pleasant experience. Never again. I'm serious about that.

I'm sorry that your family makes you feel the way that you do. It sounds like they aren't very understanding of your position, and that can put up so many barriers. I hope I can convince you that I'm not that kind of person; I always try to break down barriers and find some common ground, no matter what we believe or, in your case, don't believe.

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You seem like a pretty personable Mormon with your booze, coffee and cheap whores but I don't fancy your signature, mormonbuddy.

Learn what we should learn.
Do what we should do.
Be what we should be.
-Thomas S. Monson

Why be a sheeple? Do what you think you should do and most especially be what you in fact are. This is what you should learn.

I learned that I was a child of God, and this helped me understand who I was. Now I can be who I was always meant to be. I love this quote! I'm not saying it strips me of personality...I mean...I love beers and wines, what can I say?

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I could do that. I would still receive a degree of glory. However, I wish to attain the highest degree of glory, and within that Kingdom I want to receive exaltation on high. To walk in the presence of our Heavenly Father is the greatest gift he can one day give us, and he's given us a way to prepare for that. Earth is a test for mortals, after all.

Looks like we finally found something to disagree on. Turns out earth is heaven. Religion was invented by the devil to tempt you away from our divine mother earth. You have been deceived. Repent and learn to love this place, this time and this earth before you miss out forever.

LOL. Looks like you delved into some of the online tellings of the Temple Endowment ceremony. I like the phrase, "Milk before meat". Giving a person all the "meat" up front tends to give them an upset stomach, but if a child begins with "milk", then the meat will not be so harsh once it is introduced.

That being said, I don't mind talking about the meat, but there are some things pertaining to the Endowment Ceremony that I have sworn an oath to stay silent about, lest I am within the walls of a Temple. I'll do my best in helping you understand what these things mean, though by your jesting tone, it seems you understand the implications of what you have discovered, no?

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...if there is a commandment passed down from on high that we are never in the wrong for following it. If the Prophet leads us astray, then the burden of guilt is with him, and not us sheeple.

This line of reasoning is similar to how Nazi underlings defended themselves at the Nurenburg Trials. Allowing for the fact J. Smith wasn't Hitler, how do you reconcile blind obedience with zero culpability?

It's a toughie. It's also why personal revelation is so important. If we feel like the Prophet is telling us something wrong, then we can ask God ourselves for guidance. I did this with alcoholic beverages and coffee and tea. Since my discovery that God is a little bit lenient on the Mormon ban against these things, I've also found many other members that partake from time to time as well.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

If we all go to heaven, then why did god bother to write so many versions of holy books to "guide" people? To what end, if we all go to heaven? Why don't you join us godless people and have all the fun you want in this lifetime, and go to heaven in the next, just like us?

I could do that. I would still receive a degree of glory. However, I wish to attain the highest degree of glory, and within that Kingdom I want to receive exaltation on high. To walk in the presence of our Heavenly Father is the greatest gift he can one day give us, and he's given us a way to prepare for that. Earth is a test for mortals, after all.

Ok yea, this is what I have trouble understanding.

What is the virtue in believing in something you have no evidence for? AKA, taking it on faith? Why is this virtue so great that you should be rewarded for being gullible? I would understand actually, if you think god will reward you for the good deeds you do, but why is believing in god considered a good?

Another question: what do you plan to do in heaven? How many years have you planned out?

[PeterPriesthood]

What is the virtue in believing in something you have no evidence for? AKA, taking it on faith? Why is this virtue so great that you should be rewarded for being gullible? I would understand actually, if you think god will reward you for the good deeds you do, but why is believing in god considered a good?

Another question: what do you plan to do in heaven? How many years have you planned out?

For the first question, I think we as human beings are skeptical to begin with. There is no evidence, but there is hope. We work with that hope, and it can eventually blossom into faith. Even the smallest amount of faith can lead a man to Christ, if he puts that faith to work on finding out if the Gospel of Christ is true.

The only downside I see to not having faith would be that a person will most likely not attain the highest degree of glory. If the truth is presented to someone while they are on earth, but they reject it, then the burden falls to them to correct this action lest they lose all possibility of returning to God. Those without knowledge of Christ will all be saved, and they will be given equal opportunity in the next life to accept Him as their Savior. In this way God is both Just and Merciful.

Believing in God, therefore, is very good, for it give us the chance to become like Him some day. Disbelief isn't bad either, but it's still failing the test in a way.

As for the second question, I first plan on learning as much about the nature of Godhood as I possibly can. Omnipotence and Omniscience sound like daunting prospects, but I'm sure my new resurrected body can handle it. I'm sure the learning process will take a few hundred, if not a few thousand years...we learn so little in our short existence as flesh and blood, so picking up the rest will be a ginormous task.

After my learning is at a satisfactory level, I suppose the baby-making will begin. It's not accomplished in the way you would think...making Spirit Children is a completely different process, and hundreds of thousands can be made at once. It's also easier since I'll have my entire family to help out. (In Heaven, we can also get sealed to multiple wives since the laws of the land no longer interfere with God's law.)

I'll send these Spirit Children on their way, and they will have a Savior to help them overcome sin, just like Jesus did for us. It won't be anyone in my blood line. It may not even be a person from our planet. You see, we believe that Christ is the Savior of other planets as well, not just our own. Heavenly Father's contemporaries made spirit children for their own planets, and Christ had to save them too. We are lucky enough to be on the planet to where God's only Begotten Son was sent!

[Captain Colostomy]

Thanks for your reply. I find it odd you think it was a revelation that allowed you to do jell-o shots finally, but I digress.


Another question- What are your thoughts on Prop 8...specifically the meddling the Mormon church did? Do you understand why many wish tax exempt status to be revoked on them?

And another...Y'alls magic underwear. Does the magic make shit streaks automatically disappear, or is there a more mundane reason, like soap?

[PeterPriesthood]

Thanks for your reply. I find it odd you think it was a revelation that allowed you to do jell-o shots finally, but I digress.

Oh...I need to try those!

Look, Jesus had no problems drinking wine back in his day, and Joseph Smith, the first modern-day prophet, felt it was just fine to imbibe from time to time. Any sensible human being should know to take things in moderation. I realized that there was nothing in the Word of Wisdom that specified whether or not we needed to stop drinking Soda...yet Soda, Pop, whatever you call it, is so much worse for us than a glass of Red Wine could ever be. I guess I don't follow as blindly as others of my ilk.

Another question- What are your thoughts on Prop 8...specifically the meddling the Mormon church did? Do you understand why many wish tax exempt status to be revoked on them?

I think our Church should be taxed! Our leaders are running it like a Business, buying up half of downtown Salt Lake City, making a profit off of many investments to include Pepsi-Cola...I think Mormonism extends beyond the realm of religion, and my Church needs to stop asking for the same special permissions that the others do. Elitism creates a barrier between us and our fellow man, and I try my best to break that barrier whenever possible.

Prop 8 is dumb dumb dumb! The Meddling of our Church is wrong, especially if they want to still be considered a religion. We have more important things to worry about, such as the missionary efforts of our young men and women.

And another...Y'alls magic underwear. Does the magic make shit streaks automatically disappear, or is there a more mundane reason, like soap?

Oh my heck! You guys love talking about our underwear, lol. I'm glad you find it interesting though. Yeah...when it comes to streaks soap does the trick just fine

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And I do mean that I don't support Prop 8. It was made by bigoted individuals, and I try to distance myself from them. Crap...I'm in a Church full of them. I suppose the best I can do is be a good example for my brothers and sisters.

[NoraBrimstone]

If I don't fancy going to Heaven, can I go to the fictional world/place of my choice? Like Hogwarts, or Middle Earth, or Idris, or something?