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From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
#1
From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
Greetings all,


The following is a brief history of how I came to be as I am now and I would very much like to share this story with you if I may.

As far as I can recall, what I have written here is the truth, and the truth as far as I can see is all I believe I have witnessed and all that logic and reason tell me.

I will start then by first explaining that it was by experience that I came to know what many professors of psychology and psychiatry keep trying to warn others about: Cannabis can and often does cause short term memory loss, anxiety, fatigue, loss of concentration, delusions, paranoia and much worse besides. However, what many of these professors seem unable to understand and acknowledge is that there is also a very positive side to cannabis.

From my experience, during the first hour only when the desired effect of cannabis has started to work and when taken in reasonable moderation, (without alcohol, tobacco or any other drug or chemical, or person for that matter, that can so easily inhibit the ability of cannabis to raise one's awareness to higher levels) not only does it become obvious that the senses become so much more improved and the mind so much more relaxed, but it also becomes clear that one can see and reason so much more as well. Added to this, the values that were indoctrinated into us from childhood which cause us to react as we do to certain situations and problems, no longer have the same hold over us, this in itself can be dangerous but it can also be a very good thing:

Being under the influence of cannabis as I have just described, allows me to think and reason more deeply, vividly and freely, without the dominating views and prejudices of others who throughout history have largely controlled what men should think and perceive is the truth. Even so, I also know that cannabis can be extremely dangerous at times.



Here then is the story, or part of the story of my search to know the truth and how I came to be as I am now...

Although I started using cannabis in 1969, as far as I recall it wasn't until late 1985 or early 1986 that I began to see that when taking cannabis without any other stimulus, the more I was becoming aware that I was able to perceive more and think more freely and independently. I also remember how fascinated I became as new avenues of thought would keep opening up to me in ways I had not experienced before.

Before I go any further I should point out that because of world and family indoctrination, by the time I had reached my mid to late teens Darwinism and National Socialism had become firmly entrenched in my psyche, together with a very limited knowledge of Christianity. These indoctrinated views and influences then greatly controlled my behaviour and ways of thinking, steering my thoughts and actions in various ways for at least another two decades. Then in the early part of 1986 I came to know what it really means to be deeply under the influence of cannabis with no alcohol, tobacco or anything else that does so easily deny or ruin the overall positive effect which can be obtained during that first hour, and it was during one of these periods that I became entranced when I began to see quite clearly my thought process at work:

As computers stored and retrieved information, so I began to see more and more clearly a part of my own mind working in a similar but far more interesting way. As time seemed to slow down I became very much aware of my nerves conveying what they were sensing to my memory where this new information was being stored for later use. I could see that much of this new information was also being used in whatever thought process was in progress at the time the information came in. I could also plainly see that my thought process was largely made up from my memory constantly being scanned for relative or useful information that could be added to whatever the innermost ruling part of my conscious self was experiencing or dealing with at the time, and it also became clear that this ongoing process was often being carried out so that I might make the best possible decisions for both my short term and long term feelings of pleasure or ecstasy.

One evening however, whilst under the influence of cannabis, I also came to realise that I didn't really know what I believed in. Suddenly it seemed like there was nothing I could trust in any more. Even when the effects of cannabis had worn off I was still seeing how hopelessly lost and double minded I was, particularly in the things of politics, morality, atheism and religion. I think I may well have remained in that state were it not for the love I had for my two little children who in their times of innocence and naivety would love and trust in me. It was then from that lost state did I become obsessed to know just what the truth was and what or who I and my dear loved ones should prepare to face in the end.

After years of studying and thinking deeply on the subjects of atheism and evolution, cosmology, National Socialism, the prophecies of Nostradamus, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism and life in general, it was eventually made very clear to me there was a part of me called pride that had convinced me I was the better man when I compared myself to certain others. This pride was also allowing me and causing me at times to regard those others with disrespect, even contempt. I was also made to see that from such a mindset it was easy to dismiss the true word of others as being irrelevant, unimportant or untrue whenever their statements were seen to conflict with any of my own selfish or self-important desires and plans. I did also eventually see that whilst my pride was in control it was easy for me to cheat on and lie to anyone who I did not care for, especially those who I assessed as being less important or inferior to myself. As much as I was ready to ignore the truth and deceive others for my own gain, so I was equally ready to ignore the truth and deceive myself into thinking how good and right I was. I also saw the half-truths and lies of others were easily welcomed by me as absolute truth whenever they had fed and reinforced my feeling of superiority and pleasure.

I was also made to see this vain and self deceiving way of thinking was working not only in myself but in those around me also and for as much as our self first desires became our needs so also would our cravings for more leave us more vulnerable and subject to the corruption of those most crafty and evil. Their lies would often become more easily accepted by us as truth and would therefore become easily woven into the memories of our minds that believed in those lies, and it was from our lie infested memories that our deductions, decisions and judgements were being formed. I eventually had to conclude therefore that whatever is being reasoned and perceived as truth and reality to minds corrupted by pride is all too often an illusion. I was also made to see that this state of mind is to some degree the inherited scourge of us all, breeding contempt and hatred for the truth along with paranoia, conflict, killing and destruction, just as the history of man will clearly testify.


Also, when under the influence of cannabis, I was made to see that even from an atheistic and Darwinian viewpoint, a reasonable concept of God could be seen. A contradiction in terms you might think, but even so, a reasonable concept nevertheless, and one which I would now like to explain if I may...

One day I came to hear that an atheist mathematician had recently announced a theory of natural repetition that went something like this: When everything that can happen, i.e. every single permutation of every movement in all matter (matter being something as opposed to nothing) has happened, the only logical thing to happen next would be for everything to start repeating itself, and ultimately, to continually keep repeating itself over and over again add infinitum. This then would include the natural process that started our universe and the following naturally formed evolutionary cycle that produced the intelligent life within it. Even this intelligent life on earth that we now perceive as our own would, sometime in the far distant future, be repeated, and not just once, but over and over again. So the theory goes.


What is more, so I was told: Even though the time span between the cycle that produced us now and the repeated cycle that would eventually produce us again in that far distant future might look like bordering on the infinite, it would still only seem like an instant between our loss of consciousness at death, and our regained consciousness through the rebirth of our naturally repeated evolved lives in the future. This is because only the time registered in the consciousness would be recorded and therefore known... so the theory goes.

Now the point I am coming to is this: When we apply this theory of natural repetition to our universe, (which is largely believed by many scientists to be a rapidly expanding 'bubble' billions of light years across and which started from an incredibly small point some 10-20 billion years ago) we can also very easily arrive at a completely different and infinitely more interesting conclusion that goes way beyond the original idea of a naturally repeating eternity of endless births, deaths and rebirths, but first we must consider the following...

If our universe, as some would have us believe, could be the first one or one of a finite number capable of starting and supporting evolved intelligent life, then it would mean that as time has advanced so the variation in the movement of matter would have increased. In which case then, if we were to trace time back we would have to witness a decrease in that variation. Eventually if we were to trace time back far enough we would have to come to a point of absolute zero movement in all matter, and that would result in a physical impossibility for any movement to begin. The only logical way out of this would be that our universe cannot be the first one or one of a finite number but instead must be one in an infinite number (from an atheistic point of view). Some atheist scientists though have also argued that our universe could have started from nothing by way of a “quantum fluctuation”, but even if this was true it would still logically follow that if nothing was responsible for starting this rapidly expanding 'bubble' we call our universe, then wherever there was nothing there would be countless universes about to be formed, being formed and already formed. In other words, it would have been impossible for nothing to have existed without already producing a mass of countless expanding (and possibly contracting) 'bubbles', similar to the one we presently call our universe. In which case, we would still be in the realms of "natural repetition". (from an atheistic point of view)

This in turn then would mean that evolved intelligent life in one form or another would not only have already strived an infinite number of times to understand, create and control whatever it so willed but would already have had an infinite period of time in which to do it in. Whatever kind or form of evolutionary cycle that would have produced this almighty free thinking God of reason then, could also be seen to be the origins of God and therefore also a part of God. So even from an atheistic point of view I was able to see what could be described as a reasonable concept of an eternal infinite all knowing all powerful God who came into existence but with no conceivable beginning to the finite mind of man... if you see what I mean.


Having been given this atheistic view of God then, and having seen how pride corrupts our ability to reason correctly and form fair and trustworthy conclusions, I was eventually made to see very clearly that before any of us can be sure we are living by the truth we must first be sure the cause of living by lies and delusion has been completely removed from us. I came to see also that this removal can be achieved but only when we are living faithfully by these two commandments:

In Mark 12:28-31 it is written, One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
The most important one,” answered Jesus, is this: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
[As far as I can see, from an atheistic point of view, the nearest equivalent to that commandment would go something like this, “always love and value that which produced you: the human race, above your self and above all things at all costs”]
The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

I would now like to end this post by saying this:

Simple logical deductions show me that only by valuing these two commandments above all other opposing commands, doctrines, forces and influences that would have us place an inferior value to ourselves on others, shall we ever find no reason to deceive and offend anyone. Simple logical deductions also show me that only by truly valuing the man who first gave us these greatest of all commandments, above all other men and gods, shall I seriously value His commandments above all other opposing commands, doctrines, forces and influences also; and only by living always by His two greatest commandments shall any of us begin to find no reason to deceive and offend anyone including ourselves.

Best wishes all and thank you for your time
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#2
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
Welcome to the forum.

I'm going to be perectly blunt here. You've got a lot of non-sequiturs that seem to be more rationalization than reason. You didn't like the person you were that developed from the conclusions you drew as an atheist, and a belief in god allowed you to change that. You found faults within yourself and justified a worldview that aloowed you to change those faults.

You speak of atheism bringin about pride that caused you to believe you're better than everyone else and thusly felt that you were justified in treating them poorly. I, however, have never had such issues as an atheist. What then should I conclude about your conclusion that following those commandments are the only way to value and treat others fairly?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#3
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
Hello old man and welcome to AF! ^_^
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

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#4
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
I used drugs when I was a christian and when I deconverted to atheist, I somehow quit drugs! That means being an atheist is the greatest thing evar!........... No, that's silly of me, its called a 'post hoc ergo propter hoc', "after this, therefore because of this".

Oh well, Welcome Enjoy the forums.



Do I smell something fishy? Dodgy
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#5
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
(August 3, 2013 at 1:42 pm)LastPoet Wrote: Do I smell something fishy? Dodgy

Have you showered recently?

Oh, wait...you mean a fake "I was an atheist" story? It's very possible, but I'm trying harder to give people the benefit of the doubt on this forum. I must be sick...
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#6
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
(August 3, 2013 at 2:08 pm)Faith No More Wrote: It's very possible, but I'm trying harder to give people the benefit of the doubt on this forum. I must be sick...

After Sock Week it's really hard, though.. Undecided
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura

Reply
#7
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
If that's "brief" I'd hate to see you when you carry on.

Meanwhile....personal experiences (delusions) aside....there is no evidence for any of the gods that humanity has concocted to soothe its fears.

Welcome anyway.
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#8
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...



[Image: D7612546_714_051707011]


For what it's worth, given our current understanding, if the universe is cyclical as you suggest, there will be a singularity punctuating each cycle. Our current understanding is that no information can flow through the singularity from 'before' to 'after', so no accumulation of knowledge and control would be possible.

You might want to look into Roger Penrose's model (CCC).

I recommend that you wear a coat. It's cold outside.


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#9
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
'Old Man' is one of my favorite Neil Young songs.

Thought I'd share.
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#10
RE: From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...
(August 3, 2013 at 2:12 pm)apophenia Wrote: For what it's worth, given our current understanding, if the universe is cyclical as you suggest, there will be a singularity punctuating each cycle. Our current understanding is that no information can flow through the singularity from 'before' to 'after', so no accumulation of knowledge and control would be possible.


If you believe it would be possible for intelligent life to gather enough knowledge and create or govern enough energy to create an environment in which to exist beyond the lifespan of it's sun, it would then have the remaining lifespan of it's universe to continue gathering enough knowledge to create an environment in which to exist beyond that lifespan. To believe this would be impossible with the relative tiny amount of knowledge we have at present would be premature.
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