Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 11, 2024, 5:39 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
#61
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 8:45 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Because it's logically valid Esq. Logically valid yet possible to translate another way. I don't see how the alternate translation/s lead to an equally satisfying answer, but that's for you to support, if you oppose it.

Esq spotted it Chas. "verifiable"

I assumed 'verifiable' when I said 'evidence'.

If it's not verifiable, it isn't evidence.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Reply
#62
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 8:45 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Because it's logically valid Esq. Logically valid yet possible to translate another way. I don't see how the alternate translation/s lead to an equally satisfying answer, but that's for you to support, if you oppose it.

Esq spotted it Chas. "verifiable"

Wait, is that seriously your position?

You're on really, really shaky ground there. For one, logic doesn't necessarily lead to truth; it only does so if one feeds in correct premises, and you've just admitted that there's more than one way to interpret the evidence you're using. Besides that, your second sentence is fallacious from top to bottom; when it's not being an argument from ignorance ("I can't think of a response that I find more satisfying, and therefore this is right") it's being an argument from personal incredulity ("I can't see how any explanation could be better, therefore god.") Furthermore, it doesn't matter what explanation you think is more satisfying, unless you can... oh, right, demonstrate that it correlates with physical reality. And to do that, you'd need to verify that your evidence supports your claim.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply
#63
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
If there is no verifiable evidence for Christianity, what do you propose should lead us to the conclusion it is true?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply
#64
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
Esq:

1. logically it has to be an open answer, otherwise it would logically follow that we couldn't be addressing the supernatural.

2. You disagree about discerning the best answer? just, wow.

Just like any agnostic, I should not rule out the possibility that what looks to be utterly convincing may actually be incorrect, that it's all. I'm not choosing between equally convincing arguments, or I'd be an atheist.

3. Circular reasoning

(August 12, 2013 at 10:42 am)Faith No More Wrote: If there is no verifiable evidence for Christianity, what do you propose should lead us to the conclusion it is true?

The usual faith. Y'know, faith. Smile
Reply
#65
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 12:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Esq:

1. logically it has to be an open answer, otherwise it would logically follow that we couldn't be addressing the supernatural.

But not having a conclusive answer in no way justifies recourse to entirely non-verifiable juju.

Quote:2. You disagree about discerning the best answer? just, wow.

It doesn't matter what you think the best answer is, it matters what the true answer is. The thing is, you're bringing into any discussion you have a whole slew of biases and heuristics that do lead people astray; this is why science uses repeatability, and falsifiability, and rigorous peer review, to strip away those elements that might lead us astray, leaving only the objectively most accurate answer.

What you're suggesting is that the best answer, in certain cases, cannot be tested like this, and that the answer you're giving can't ever be demonstrated to be true. How are we to separate this idea of yours from a delusion, especially when we have actual, verifiable evidence that shows otherwise?

Quote:Just like any agnostic, I should not rule out the possibility that what looks to be utterly convincing may actually be incorrect, that it's all. I'm not choosing between equally convincing arguments, or I'd be an atheist.

Since you've got no evidence that you can produce, you've got no reason to be convinced at all.

Quote:3. Circular reasoning

Wow, really? "Circular reasoning?" I never thought about it like that before! Shit, "Circular reasoning!" What a well spoken and cogent rebuttal! Thanks, Frodo! You've fucking convinced me!
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply
#66
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 12:52 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The usual faith. Y'know, faith. Smile

So, nothing then. Thanks for clearing that up. Smile

Let me rephrase...what should lead me to conclude I should have faith and that faith leads me to truth?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply
#67
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
Non verifiable evidence is the obvious answer I'd go for faith. Wink

Esq

It is the true answer if it's the only logical one.

How many scientists replicating an answer does it take to declare a theory? Two?
How many religious people replicating an answer does it take to declare a theory? There cannot be enough apparently.

I produce the bible as evidence. So according to you, "I have reason to be convinced"

Circular reasoning, yes. You demand that unlike in the real world, you must have physical evidence of something that isn't physical. Do you see the circle? In denying the truth, you are able to support your assertion that this particular non physical thing cannot be logical.
You insist that we must have evidence of this thing that cannot, by its nature, be evidenced. Again, circular reasoning.
Wake up and smell the mustard Esq. It smells of shit, because you're full of it.
Reply
#68
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 1:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Non verifiable evidence is the obvious answer I'd go for faith. Wink

Should've known you'd fail to be specific...
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply
#69
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
Sorry not no derail my own thread lover Wink
Reply
#70
RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
(August 12, 2013 at 2:04 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Sorry not no derail my own thread lover Wink

That's not derailing. That is natural progression, you sexy beast.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  How can a Christian reject part of the Bible and still call themselves a Christian? KUSA 371 100827 May 3, 2020 at 1:04 am
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Can someone show me the evidence of the bullshit bible articles? I believe in Harry Potter 36 5939 November 3, 2019 at 7:33 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary? Silver 181 43627 November 11, 2017 at 10:11 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
  Atheists don't realize asking for evidence of God is a strawman ErGingerbreadMandude 240 33853 November 10, 2017 at 3:11 pm
Last Post: Cyberman
Question Why do you people say there is no evidence,when you can't be bothered to look for it? Jaguar 74 23375 November 5, 2017 at 7:17 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  Personal evidence Silver 19 6679 November 4, 2017 at 12:27 pm
Last Post: c152
  Is Accepting Christian Evidence Special Pleading? SteveII 768 270360 September 28, 2017 at 10:42 pm
Last Post: Kernel Sohcahtoa
  Do Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence? SteveII 643 157018 August 12, 2017 at 1:36 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  Evidence: The Gathering Randy Carson 530 104173 September 25, 2015 at 5:14 pm
Last Post: abaris
  With Science and Archaeology and Miracle's evidence for God TheThinkingCatholic 35 12241 September 20, 2015 at 11:32 am
Last Post: Fidel_Castronaut



Users browsing this thread: 4 Guest(s)