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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 10:28 am
(August 15, 2013 at 1:13 am)Undeceived Wrote: I have never seen the lame walk or blind see instantly, without technology.
To be clear, you've never seen that at all. You're accepting stories of it from... well, we all know how many iterations the bible's been through.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Quote:Yeah the fig tree it's hugely significant. Jesus did nothing without meaning.
Look. I don't like figs either, but jesus comes off looking like something of a dick there.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 1:40 pm
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2013 at 1:41 pm by fr0d0.)
just in case you really really wanted to know:
" Checking the fig tree for fruit out of season was a signal: Had he found fruit (which normally came in after the leaves), it would have been a sign of the coming Messianic Kingdom.
Since he did not find fruit, the tree became a symbol for fruitless Israel, and of his rejection, and was withered -- in line with the OT judgments "
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm
Ah, fr0ds, it's like watching a mouse in a maze, turning back on itself not knowing where to go!
Quote:" So, when you say that there *could* be a
supernatural explanation "
I didn't say that. I said there could be a natural explanation,
Wrong. You *explicitly* did say that:
Quote:I never said that water to wine doesn't have a supernatural explanation. I said it #could# have.
Why the change of heart?
Quote: thus ruling out the possibility of verifiable evidence, the faith buster.
I'm leaving this aside for now.
Quote:ALL events must also be explainable naturally.
Great. So how does one turn water to wine? Why hasn't humanity stumbled upon the method yet, after millenia of knowing about alcohols?
Quote:God could have directed you to turn on the heater.
How do we know this? Everything in the world is reducible to natural explanations. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, all my actions are *mine* at all times, because I'm in control of my nervous system/neurons/thoughts according to neurologists.
Quote: If it suited his purpose, if the butterfly effect lead to some change in future events.
Yeah, I understand that.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 7:49 pm
Quote:Since he did not find fruit, the tree became a symbol for fruitless Israel, and of his rejection, and was withered -- in line with the OT judgments
Or....maybe he didn't find fruit because he wasn't the fucking messiah.... as indicated in OT judgements?
I mean, let's face it. He didn't do anything that the fucking messiah was supposed to do.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 15, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Indeed, the Messiah was supposed to be a sword wielding warrior, not a hippy pansy.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 2:33 am
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2013 at 2:38 am by fr0d0.)
(August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Why the change of heart?
I underestimated your stupid and had to go make it easy for you :p
(August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Quote:ALL events must also be explainable naturally.
Great. So how does one turn water to wine? Why hasn't humanity stumbled upon the method yet, after millenia of knowing about alcohols?
We did this. The natural explanation might be trickery or coercion. No need for a convinced skeptic. Would you be convinced? Are you the gullible type? Do you think David Blaine has supernatural powers?
(August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Quote:God could have directed you to turn on the heater.
How do we know this? Everything in the world is reducible to natural explanations. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, all my actions are *mine* at all times, because I'm in control of my nervous system/neurons/thoughts according to neurologists.
Bingo
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 2:44 am
(August 16, 2013 at 2:33 am)fr0d0 Wrote: (August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Why the change of heart?
I underestimated your stupid and had to go make it easy for you :p
A contradiction is a contradiction. Run little mouse, run!
Quote: (August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Great. So how does one turn water to wine? Why hasn't humanity stumbled upon the method yet, after millenia of knowing about alcohols?
We did this. The natural explanation might be trickery or coercion. No need for a convinced skeptic. Would you be convinced? Are you the gullible type? Do you think David Blaine has supernatural powers?
Ok. So Jesus was a phony. This is getting worse by the post.
Quote: (August 15, 2013 at 7:18 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: How do we know this? Everything in the world is reducible to natural explanations. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, all my actions are *mine* at all times, because I'm in control of my nervous system/neurons/thoughts according to neurologists.
Bingo
Indeed. Supernatural agents don't act in our universe.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 2:48 am
I know how to change water and wine into piss. Just drink them and wait a while.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 3:14 am
(August 15, 2013 at 1:59 am)oukoida Wrote: This is actually a (badly) disguised argument from ignorance. The fact you cannot link something to your previous experience does not necessarily mean this something is supernatural or unexplicable or goddidit.
You’re right, it does not necessarily mean that, but no one’s making an argument for God based on ignorance alone. There are two fallacious extremes. One is the argument from ignorance, employing no evidence whatsoever. The other is the “false until proven true” position. I stand on the middle ground, weighing evidence, albeit unverified evidence. God is spiritual. We can only observe natural processes—every event, spiritual or not, must manifest itself in some natural way. Reason is the bridge between the realms. It allows us to look at natural events and judge—using prior experience—whether those events are normal or aberrant. If the aberrant events are drastic enough or numerous enough, we are led to contemplate the supernatural. We see if our experiences fit within a coherent worldview, and bam!—belief is born. Have you been in a meaningful relationship? Tell me if you came to the realization of your girl’s love for you any differently. Did you make the conclusion out of ignorance, saying, “I cannot think of what she may be gaining by making me a sandwich, so she must love me.” Or did you say, “She doesn’t love me until she proves it beneath a yet-to-be-invented brain emotion scanner.” Or were you more deliberative, weighing all the evidence, even though you could never be completely sure that she’s not just playing you?
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