Battle around secularism in the Arab world?

[Something completely different]

[Chas]

[Minimalist]

[kılıç_mehmet]

[Minimalist]

I believe that they're simply less-islamist than the others.

Baby steps, Mehmet. You have to break the stranglehold of the clerics as a start.

[Anomalocaris]

[Minimalist]

I agree on the side of the secularists. The allah freaks have it easier. They simply throw their silly book around and insist that everyone adhere to what they determine to be what it says.

Egypt is an excellent example. 90% are islamic of one stripe or another. The difference is that some are content to memorize the fucking koran while others want a real future. They have no oil money flowing in to paper over the inequities in the country.

It may be harder for the secularists to organize seeing as how they are united by what they do not want ( islamic nuttiness ) rather than what they do, but it is important to remember that it is not just the army gunning down the muslim brotherhood. There are substantial numbers who wanted Morsi out which is how the current crisis started. They are lucky that the army sided with them instead of the government - as armies usually do.

As the Egyptians are finding out, Mubarak was not the cause of their economic problems. I imagine that business at the camel rides on the Giza Plateau is pretty slow right now.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I believe that they're simply less-islamist than the others.

Baby steps, Mehmet. You have to break the stranglehold of the clerics as a start.

Bah, I really don't care what they do, my friend. Baby steps are for babies. These people are not babies, they've seen countless counquerors come and go, and have been through numerous different administrations.
The only real steps are those who are the most radical ones.
Anything else will not do.
Both sides are quite radical. Do you think that being secular makes you somewhat more european like?
Nay, my friend.
Their agenda might have a secular nature or undertone, but that certainly doesn't mean that they meet the criteria of what you deem to be secular.
They'll probably place the clergy under gov. control, just like here.

[Minimalist]

Any control of the clergy is good.

Ataturk was a long time ago - and he was a general too - and there are still islamic problems in Turkey. For some reason invoking 'god' works well with the ignorant. Happens all the time over here.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Any control of the clergy is good.

Ataturk was a long time ago - and he was a general too - and there are still islamic problems in Turkey. For some reason invoking 'god' works well with the ignorant. Happens all the time over here.

Well, Atatürk was not a *secularist*, he didn't seperate the church and state. Instead of putting religion in charge of the state, he used the state to regulate religion. Indeed, religion was not able to mingle into state affairs, but the state was able to do the opposite, mingle into religious affairs.
Invoking "god" is nothing. The Ottoman government invoked "god" by the proxy of the Caliphate in the aftermath of WWI, in order to stop Turks from joining the nationalist forces. It certainly did not work.

And most of the Turkish peasantry who were the main source of manpower in the war of independence were quite iliterate.
Yet they understood one thing. Sovereignity, liberty and independence.

This is what really motivates people. Invoking God is useless unless your enemies are of another religion. But why really invoke religion in order to fight your own people?
The Salafists and Wahabis are the kind of people who even declare other sunnis to be heretics just because we have shrines to famous moslem saints in our lands. Their beliefs are the kind of beliefs that pit brother against the brother. A government with a firm hand on religion is required.