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RE: Hell
October 26, 2009 at 6:43 am
If by the ID brigade you mean things like the irriducibile complexity of some forms of biology I used to believe that, but I don't think I do anymore. I am quite happen with evolutions explaination. I would be theist evolution I suppose and I take the 'creation story' as a 'myth' (ie: Not literally true but the meaning is true).
I am very much against the literal interpretation.
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Hell
October 26, 2009 at 10:48 am
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2009 at 4:16 pm by Meatball.)
What parts of the bible do you take literally?
Not Genesis? How about The Flood? Sodom/Gomorrah? Virgin birth? Healings? Ressurrections? Water-to-wine? Jesus as Lord? Ressurection of Jesus? Jesus ascending? Any of Revelations?
All of these things are spoken of very plainly in the bible. Why are some literal, but not all?
- Meatball
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RE: Hell
October 26, 2009 at 10:59 am
(October 26, 2009 at 10:48 am)Meatball Wrote: What parts of the bible do take literally?
Not Genesis? How about The Flood? Sodom/Gomorrah? Virgin birth? Healings? Ressurrections? Water-to-wine? Jesus as Lord? Ressurection of Jesus? Jesus ascending? Any of Revelations?
All of these things are spoken of very plainly in the bible. Why are some literal, but not all?
Meatball, I think you'll find that the bits which have been categorically disproven, are to be taken as metaphor and allegory. Anything science hasn't got to yet - did actually happen. (until science gets round to it, and then they're not to be taken literally either). 
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RE: Hell
October 26, 2009 at 11:50 am
(October 21, 2009 at 3:23 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Like I already explained Evie.. I wasn't counting myself outside the human race there! Of course WE find it horrible - how can't we? Looking at the BIG PICTURE tho', we can see a point, as to any parasite, or any living thing as it has to make use of other things to exist, this is how it works[...]
That doesn't make any sense though. Because if you take us out of the picture then there's neither horror or beauty.
Seeing the whole thing as beauty without you being in the picture, doesn't make sense because that is precisely you judging it as all beautiful! You can't take yourself our the picture and judge it as beautiful, because if you're not in the picture, how is it any more beautiful than horrible or anything else? We give the descriptions. The concept of horror doesn't exist without us, but neither does beauty.
Quote:Beauty is astrangeway to describe it, because it's human language which we usually associate with things that give US pleasure. Horrible the same spectrum.
Yes, that's why the whole thing can't be beautiful without us in the picture. Because both horror and beauty are concepts that require us. Or if you argue they exist objectively, then how does beauty exist any more than horror? So how in any sense is it "all beautiful"? It's wishful thinking in my mind.
Quote:t's life and that's howlife works. We all life and thrive by this system, therefore it's good... good as in it doeswhat it sets out to achieve: proliferation of life. Are you anti life on earth?
No I am not anti-life on earth. And when you say that it's how life works and it's therefore "good" you are comitting the Naturalistic Fallacy.
EvF
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RE: Hell
October 28, 2009 at 12:34 pm
(October 26, 2009 at 10:48 am)Meatball Wrote: What parts of the bible do you take literally?
Not Genesis? How about The Flood? Sodom/Gomorrah? Virgin birth? Healings? Ressurrections? Water-to-wine? Jesus as Lord? Ressurection of Jesus? Jesus ascending? Any of Revelations?
All of these things are spoken of very plainly in the bible. Why are some literal, but not all?
I don't think I believe in a world wide flood, probably Sodom/Gomorrah, it depends if young girl was mistanslated to virgin, ether way I dont mind, healings yes, everything else you said yes. Revelation is obviously symbolic, no one thinks theres gunna be a 10 headed dragon..... well there might be some lol.
I interpret the bible to the best of my ability. That means using science and reason. Science proves the world didn't happen like the creation story so I dont take it literally. The gospels obviously happened as said more or less and alot of the Old Testament history. Consider that if God had put down the big bang theory back then would it have made any sense to them? It just explains simply the relationship between God and man through story.
Assume a man living before modern science wanted to know the relationship between God and man before people are born. He could write about having out souls created in heaven before being born and being taught the moral code and that some learnt better than others but at birth our minds were then wiped of this only to be regained at death. Now this isn't necessarily true, but it tells us that God knew us before we were born, that there is a nature tendancy to believe in God, that some naturally act good or bad form some reason (now known to be partly because of genetics and upbringing).
By the way I just made that up off the top of my head, so forgive the inaccuracies. My point is that they understood something about God and chose to write it down in story form so it relates to us better. Thats my idea anyway.
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Hell
October 29, 2009 at 1:08 am
(This post was last modified: October 29, 2009 at 11:14 pm by chatpilot.)
If your idea is correct then it must be applied to all of the cultures that existed before Judaism and Christianity came to the forefront. Anything else would just be a sign of intolerance and absolutism by stating that all the others were wrong and your beliefs are the only ones that are right. Mankind has always been fascinated with the idea of gods not because he knew them but because he was curious to know about the many mysteries of the world around him. Even the most primitive cultures by today's standards have their religions and gods.
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RE: Hell
October 29, 2009 at 8:30 am
(October 28, 2009 at 12:34 pm)solarwave Wrote: The gospels obviously happened as said more or less and alot of the Old Testament history. Why "obviously"?
I'm a little confused, since the gospels are 4 different accounts of the events, and differ quite a bit (some even contradict). Why are parts left out of some gospels but not in others?
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RE: Hell
October 29, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Adrian obviously some authors of the gospels forgot some things and the other authors did not lol. Solar the bible as a whole as an historical document is in my view useless. Simply because it was never meant to be historical but rather religious. The entire purpose of the bible is and was back then to espouse and perpetuate the beliefs and religious practices of a society (Hebrews) and to glorify their God.
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RE: Hell
October 30, 2009 at 2:59 pm
chatpilot: What do you mean by applying it to other religions too? I don't have a problem with them being symbolic too.
Obivously past peoples were curious about lifes mysteries but its nothing more than your opinion to say that they didn't also know a personal God. You say the same to me except that I experience a personal God you just have a lack of experience.
Adrian: Well certain parts of the gospels are obviously true. Such as there was a man who had followers who preached, who some considered a prophet, who was killed by the romans and whos followers claimed rose again on the third day. Christianity did start in Israel and spread from there.
I think there are reasons to believe the rest of the gospels. That doesn't mean you would agree, but there is rational reason to believe.
I think each gospel has a slightly different emphasis on different things and the contradictions can be sorted out.
Mark Taylor: "Religious conflict will be less a matter of struggles between belief and unbelief than of clashes between believers who make room for doubt and those who do not."
Einstein: “The most unintelligible thing about nature is that it is intelligible”
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RE: Hell
October 30, 2009 at 3:43 pm
Your personal god is in your mind.
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