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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 3:59 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 4:06 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(August 21, 2013 at 3:20 pm)Kayenneh Wrote: [...]So no more masturbating [...]
It's all I have!!
I might as well kill myself without it!
Since I'm not "getting any", ever so far! And I'm 25 next month! A quarter of a century, no sex... no hand helding, no kissing... no dating.... ever! I am one sad wanker.... that's fo' sho'. And hardcore porn since I was 12!
So if you ban masturbation you have all us depressive-wanking-diseased people on your conscious because we just might kill ourselves. Some of us, not many, but some of us, suffer from a serious wanking-disorder-of--sexually-unlovedness.
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 4:08 pm by Faith No More.)
(August 21, 2013 at 3:58 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: I'm not sure why you have fixated on the heartbeat. Usually the first ultrasound you do is around week 12, right? They also look for down syndrome in this ultrasound, by checking the thickness of the back of the fetus's neck. So this is quite crucial for parents who decide not to keep fetuses that would develop down syndrome. Even though the fetus has a heartbeat at this point, it still depends on the mother to oxygenate the blood. Which means the heartbeat doesn't have as significant a function as our heartbeats, because the fetus isn't able to oxygenate or excrete things in the blood. Just wondering if you've thought about this as well.
Sure, but why stop at twenty weeks then? An arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere, and based on my experience, I draw it at the end of the first trimester.
What is your argument for placing it somewhere else?
ETA: Oh, and I forgot to add. We went through IVF, and at 12 weeks you are still under the care of the fertility doctor who is monitoring to see if the pregnancy is staying viable. You don't get an ultrasound until you are put under the care of the ob-gyn at the end of the first trimester.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm
I place it where the fetus is able to feel pain. Personally. Not sure why the laws converged on week 20, but it does happen to be on the safe side on the fetuses ability to feel pain.
So you took into account the detection of down syndrome at week 12?
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:08 pm
(August 21, 2013 at 3:59 pm)EvidenceVersusFaith Wrote: It's all I have!!
I might as well kill myself without it!
Since I'm not "getting any", ever so far! And I'm 25 next month! A quarter of a century, no sex... no hand helding, no kissing... no dating.... ever! I am one sad wanker.... that's fo' sho'. And hardcore porn since I was 12!
So if you ban masturbation you have all us depressive-wanking-diseased people on your conscious because we just might kill ourselves. Some of us, not many, but some of us, suffer from a serious wanking-disorder-of--sexually-unlovedness.
Oh no, no! I would never ban masturbation, but on the other hand..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:10 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 4:35 pm by Silver.)
I believe abortion should be between one woman and one jumble of cells.
Decided to make this:
![[Image: 1185102_10153198037515002_570296024_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1185102_10153198037515002_570296024_n.jpg)
]
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:11 pm
(August 21, 2013 at 3:20 pm)Kayenneh Wrote: If abortion is indeed murder, then every potential human being that's wasted is murder too. So no more masturbating or having periods. That's not what I said.
"Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it" - Robert A. Heinlein
Would you blame sports car for an accident instead of drunk driver?
Good guy Ronald Reagan
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:21 pm
I also agree with the 20 mark. Not so much because of the pain thing, because it doesn't even know if feels pain. Currently, the youngest surviving premature baby was born at 21 weeks, so for me it seems reasonable to only allow abortions for medical reasons beyond the point where it could survive outside the womb. That said, the current 24 week legal limit is also fine by me because, despite it being possible for a baby born as early as 21 weeks to survive, it's also pretty rare for a premature baby born before 24 weeks to survive (in the UK in 2006 2% born at 22 weeks survived, and 19% born at 23 weeks survived)
20 weeks is also the point where a "miscarriage" becomes a "stillbirth" and that does something to me, I guess.
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:21 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2013 at 4:21 pm by Faith No More.)
(August 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: I place it where the fetus is able to feel pain. Personally. Not sure why the laws converged on week 20, but it does happen to be on the safe side on the fetuses ability to feel pain.
That appears to be a logical threshold. I have taken it into consideration.
(August 21, 2013 at 4:07 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: So you took into account the detection of down syndrome at week 12?
Since it is detectable at such an early stage, I don't think it is really relevant. The twelfth week isn't even the end of the first trimester, which is actually a little after 13 weeks.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:23 pm
@FNM, have a look at the chart I posted. The heart is fully formed before 12 weeks, I thought that was your threshold, the heart?
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RE: Abortion Viewed in Moral Terms
August 21, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Aaaaah, the sacred Holy Bloodpumper...
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