Ugh, I hate to butt into another abortion argument.

But embryos die in labs every single day for IVF or stem cell research. You guys against that, too? Must take it into consideration if you want to take an antiabortion stance.

(August 21, 2013 at 3:20 pm)Kayenneh Wrote:

(August 21, 2013 at 3:08 pm)wwjs Wrote: So if abortion was illegal then it would be ok to call it murder?

If abortion is indeed murder, then every potential human being that's wasted is murder too. So no more masturbating or having periods.

And of course, every miscarriage would have to be investigated by the police the same way as any other sudden death of a child, in case the mother is at fault and needs to be arrested for murder or manslaughter. I mean what if she was smoking during pregnancy and that caused the miscarriage? That would be at least manslaughter, right?

(August 21, 2013 at 2:53 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote: What difference does this make? If abortion is wrong, why does it make a difference how the foetus got there?

Good question. Like I said, I take no stance other than the one I stated about exceptions, because I am rethinking the issue.

(August 21, 2013 at 3:21 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: But embryos die in labs every single day for IVF or stem cell research. You guys against that, too? Must take it into consideration if you want to take an antiabortion stance.

True, and I have gone through that myself. In fact, I'm just reminded that I was responsible for the discarding of two embryos, which is why, despite my rethinking of the issue, I do lean heavily towards, and will most likely conclude, allowing abortion in the first trimester fine.

(August 21, 2013 at 3:36 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 21, 2013 at 3:21 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: But embryos die in labs every single day for IVF or stem cell research. You guys against that, too? Must take it into consideration if you want to take an antiabortion stance.

True, and I have gone through that myself. In fact, I'm just reminded that I was responsible for the discarding of two embryos, which is why, despite my rethinking of the issue, I do lean heavily towards, and will most likely conclude, allowing abortion in the first trimester fine.

What's the difference between first and second trimester, do you know? The cutoff point for legal abortion is currently set at 20 weeks, which is midway between 1st and 2nd. And are you leaning towards this because of your personal experience or some other things you're taking into account?

(August 21, 2013 at 3:38 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: What's the difference between first and second trimester, do you know? The cutoff point for legal abortion is currently set at 20 weeks, which is midway between 1st and 2nd. And are you leaning towards this because of your personal experience or some other things you're taking into account?

It mostly an opinion based on experience. I know that the fetus has developed a heartbeat by the end of the first trimester. After looking at an ultrasound of my son at that point, I don't think I could ever advocate allowing an abortion at that stage of development.

(August 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(August 21, 2013 at 3:38 pm)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: What's the difference between first and second trimester, do you know? The cutoff point for legal abortion is currently set at 20 weeks, which is midway between 1st and 2nd. And are you leaning towards this because of your personal experience or some other things you're taking into account?

It mostly an opinion based on experience. I know that the fetus has developed a heartbeat by the end of the first trimester. After looking at an ultrasound of my son at that point, I don't think I could ever advocate allowing an abortion at that stage of development.

And it's in abortions after the first trimester that a lot of women develop those psychological problems...

Reasons to why i choose "legal in most cases"
Is reasons like.
- Saving mother incase the birth gets complicated.
- Giving mother a choice to choose to have the baby or not.

FNM, I personally agree with you. But It's an individual woman's decision, made between she and her physician alone. And I do think the closer a fetus is to living independently outside the mother's body, the more difficult the choice becomes. And the operative word is, "personally." Don't agree with abortion? Don't have one.

Ok, let's have a look.



I'm not sure why you have fixated on the heartbeat. Usually the first ultrasound you do is around week 12, right? They also look for down syndrome in this ultrasound, by checking the thickness of the back of the fetus's neck. So this is quite crucial for parents who decide not to keep fetuses that would develop down syndrome. Even though the fetus has a heartbeat at this point, it still depends on the mother to oxygenate the blood. Which means the heartbeat doesn't have as significant a function as our heartbeats, because the fetus isn't able to oxygenate or excrete things in the blood. Just wondering if you've thought about this as well.