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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 3:06 am
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 3:09 am by Whateverist.)
(September 25, 2013 at 2:30 am)catfish Wrote: If you do, go back to where I first asked you if you had labeled all nonbelievers as deceivers and either support your answer that the Bible does what you claim or correct your mistake.
I wouldn't label all nonbelievers as deceivers. Many are no doubt entirely sincere in the faith they push on their offspring. I'll bet most put up a front with their kids which masks their own doubts though. In some cases they may feel like deceivers. If you have children and bring them up in a religion, will you have to put on a front for them? (I can't tell.)
(September 25, 2013 at 3:06 am)catfish Wrote: Show me the evidence of that claim dumbasses...
That's unfair! I've never made any claim for the intelligence of my bottom.
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 3:35 am
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 3:39 am
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 4:06 am by catfish.)
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 4:47 am
(September 25, 2013 at 3:39 am)catfish Wrote: No, the absolute "best" I can say is "thank you for the ammusement", the rest will just be painful for your fragile ego.
"Confessing not.." doesn't mark them as deceivers, they were already deceivers as noted by the following verse which you posted. "This is a deceiver and an antichrist"...
See? Still a deceiver and an anti-christ (that's the proper understanding of the word "and", just so you know).
Okay, let's play the logic game again, then: what is the base premise of the bible? That god is real, Jesus is the messiah, and all men know this to be true, whether they profess it or not. Given these premises, none of which I think you'll want to argue against, what does that make a guy like me, who does not profess belief? Well, a liar... or a deceiver... I mentioned this before, but you seem to have ignored it. Along with the verses demanding that we be shunned and killed for our lack of belief in the correct god.
Besides, the verse in question, along with the surrounding passage, is so vague it does, in fact, support both positions. You've yet to do anything other than assert that it doesn't support mine, and unsurprisingly, I don't take bare assertions from theists to be remotely trustworthy.
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 4:49 am
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 4:53 am by Mystical.)
le sigh
catfish, ignoring every one of my posts that demonstrates my point does not---and I'll Rrepeat--DOES NOT--equate to anything besides you being a douche canoe.
Since this is my thread I will Continue to point out every single post you've blatantly ignored, over and over and over and Over. I'm frustrated beyond the point of giving a shit but that only makes me persistent. Wanna do this for another 37 pgs? I will not quit until you acknowledge and address my posts with a refutation of intellectual merit.
(September 23, 2013 at 9:32 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: If you were paying attention I made a complete case in one single post earlier in this thread with bible verses alone. Which you've summarily ignored, then re-ignored when I put all my posts together for your convenience.
bible Wrote:1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
And.. what happens to liars? God's wrath.
bible Wrote:Revelation 19:11-21 ESV
Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. ...
He seems very angry for someone who is cleaning up a mess he made on purpose in the first place.
bible Wrote:John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.
Romans 6:23 ESV
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
According to your bible, I sin just like you sin. Difference being it's okay for you because you have Jesus Christ to wash them away afterwards.
bible Wrote:Revelation 20:15 ESV
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
It's quite clear here what happens to those not in the book of life. Cue squiggling now.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!
Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.
Dead wrong. The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.
Quote:Some people deserve hell.
I say again: No exceptions. Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it. As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.
![[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]](https://66.media.tumblr.com/5fb74c6d16622fb3dbb358509c9aec03/tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif)
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am by Airyaman.)
(September 25, 2013 at 3:39 am)catfish Wrote: Did you answer that bolded part yet?
Anyways, it's funny how you bring two more verses that are warnings about false teachers also.
Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question.
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 12:03 pm
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 12:16 pm by catfish.)
(September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am)Airyaman Wrote: Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question.
Did you answer that bolded part yet?
Such a simple question.
(September 25, 2013 at 4:49 am)missluckie26 Wrote: le sigh
catfish, ignoring every one of my posts that demonstrates my point does not---and I'll Rrepeat--DOES NOT--equate to anything besides you being a douche canoe.
Since this is my thread I will Continue to point out every single post you've blatantly ignored, over and over and over and Over. I'm frustrated beyond the point of giving a shit but that only makes me persistent. Wanna do this for another 37 pgs? I will not quit until you acknowledge and address my posts with a refutation of intellectual merit.
Why are you still here when you still haven't provided evidence for your earlier claims. EVERYTHING you have posted since rests on your fallacious assumptions earlier in this thread.
You want something to work with? Try working with that for once.
From post #25 (of 387 currently)
http://atheistforums.org/thread-20756-po...#pid504230 (September 9, 2013 at 6:00 pm)catfish Wrote: (September 9, 2013 at 1:16 pm)missluckie26 Wrote: Aractus why exactly don't you believe the Bible is the unerring word of god? It says it is, after all. And it says to follow it or you will go to hell. ...
<snip>
Proof of claim?
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 2:27 pm
(September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am)Airyaman Wrote: Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question. Some do, some don't. Historicity of Jesus is debated by atheists.
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 2:40 pm
(September 25, 2013 at 2:27 pm)John V Wrote: (September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am)Airyaman Wrote: Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question. Some do, some don't. Historicity of Jesus is debated by atheists.
Find me an atheist who believes in Jesus-as-deity-incarnate. I won't hold my breath.
There certainly are atheists who accept Jesus-as-preacher, without all the supernatural baggage. You may as well debate the historicity of Tony Stark without Iron Man.
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RE: A small thanks to the resident Theists..
September 25, 2013 at 3:13 pm
(This post was last modified: September 25, 2013 at 3:20 pm by Airyaman.)
(September 25, 2013 at 2:27 pm)John V Wrote: (September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am)Airyaman Wrote: Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question. Some do, some don't. Historicity of Jesus is debated by atheists.
Jesus yes, Jesus Christ, no.
(September 25, 2013 at 12:03 pm)catfish Wrote: (September 25, 2013 at 7:57 am)Airyaman Wrote: Yes, false teachers of the day, but you've also failed to answer this: "those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh". Do atheists do this, yes or no?
Such a simple question.
Did you answer that bolded part yet?
Such a simple question.
My answer has absolutely no bearing on the passage itself and also does not effect the actual meaning of the passage. In any case, I looked at the context, and there is absolutely nothing that disqualifies the verse from saying what it says, that deceivers, according to the author, are those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. That would cover about any atheist I know.
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