What's everyone up to right now?

[The Valkyrie]

The local radio station that I listen to via my phone had listeners vote for the one hundred greatest albums of all time.

Now they’re playing several songs in a row from each.  So far, so good.

But...

... at least three of the albums that have made the countdown, and I’ve heard less than half of those played (they’re at number six right now, Hotel California) are by the Beatles.

Now, I’ve never understood the fuss about this band (or Pink Floyd, for that matter).  They have some good songs but they weren’t all that great.

Yes, I understand we all have different tastes, but what is so great about them??

Arguments and insults begin in...

5.

4.

😸

Agreed, mostly. I think that consensus reality is there with Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, though. Just cuz you like "Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport!" is no reason to diss the Floyd. Some of their early stuff is just plain weird. :Yup:

Nah. Give me good Ocker music like Cold Chisel, Little River Band, Men at Work, Kevin Bloody Wilson, and so many more...

👌👈

[Real Messiah]

Hey, Cathooloo, you're still a pedophile nigger, you fag.

[emjay]

It's a bit awkward talking about this with you, since you've been through it... and judging by what you've said.. from your questions about smoking, I get the impression yours wasn't smoking related? Which if the case makes it even more awkward, because if it's the case for me, it will have basically been self-imposed, since I smoke/d. So yeah, awkward I guess is the word for it... somehow disrespectful... like nothing I could say or speculate about it could do it justice and whether I'd even have the right to, since if true it would be no-one's fault but by own, and also, because I'm a worrier so I always tend to 'catastrophise'... so again, awkward if it turns out there was little risk of actual cancer, at least immediately. The thing they're testing is 'leukoplakia'... which is something in the mouth, caused by smoking and mostly cured by not smoking, that can turn cancerous but not necessarily, so Friday's test results, are to find out what it is in that regard, but with the doctor's not particularly worried at this point in time.

Talking about this isn't disrespectful to me so don't worry about that.

Even if you feel like (if you were diagnosed with smoking-related cancer) you did it to yourself, there's no reason to give up on yourself and not treat your disease.  Even if you jump off a balcony and break your legs you can still get yourself the medical help necessary to mend your legs.  Cancer is the same.  Whether you did it to yourself or not you can still get treatment.  Don't give up on yourself, emjay.  Take it day by day and don't think too far into the future.

I've also become very very familiar with catastrophizing since my diagnosis, but have also gotten counselling to help myself work through those sorts of thoughts.  If you find yourself dwelling on those kinds of catastrophic thoughts I'd advise you to seek out a counselor or therapist to work with.  If you are able to find one quickly they could also help you to reframe cigarettes so that they become less emotionally desirable for you.  But that sort of help is personal and can be insurance-dependent so it's really up to your situation and self awareness about whether that would be a good tool for you or not.

Well, I've been to the hospital today and got my results... all clear... no sign of cancer And even better, the leukoplakia's also diminishing... probably due to quitting smoking... so no need for surgery to remove that either. On top of that, the wound from the biopsy has almost totally healed... after two annoying weeks of having to wash my mouth out with warm salt water after every meal or fag (when I was smoking). So it's good news all round and more than I was expecting

So finally some peace of mind and no more catastrophizing... now I can just concentrate on making sure this quit attempt is and stays successful

So this is part of why I felt a bit awkward talking with you... since contrary to expectations, it's turned out to be the best case scenario and we've been talking about the worst.

Just the same ways any smoker does... of a pleasant and satisfying taste... and of something that's there for you through thick and thin. Basically the great smoker's delusion... quite similar to what Homer Simpson said about alcohol "the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" ... something that, though it can be intellectually known that it is a delusion... that it causes stress and then relieve the same stress it causes, all the while octopus-like attaching itself to all areas of you life as triggers... is nonetheless emotionally powerful... especially when you're impulsive and addiction-prone like me. So that's part of why I felt I needed this drug, Champix, when others might have been able to quit without it and or in different ways, more will-power orientated ways... as I've tried to quit many times before in those other ways, without any enduring success.

That's interesting.  As a non-smoker when I think about cigarettes I think of how expensive they are and what other uses I could put that money to rather than something you literally set fire to and burn away, I think of how unhealthy they are, how they affect your lung capacity and what diseases they predispose you to, I think of how badly they make a smoker smell, how they color your teeth, give you bad breath, how many people I know whose houses have been burnt down because a smoker didn't properly put their cigarette out...

It never occurs to me to think about a smoker's emotional connection to cigarettes or that they would actually like the taste.

I can understand that outside-in POV... the same way I would look at any other drug that I have no experience of... but from the inside-out perspective, although there is awareness, to varying degrees and at different times, of all the negatives in your list, and many more, they are ultimately competing with the highly positively idealised experience of smoking... and most of the time they lose in that competition; most of the time the negatives are ignored or mentally minimised, which is easy to do because most of them come up on you and change gradually, so you get accustomed to them and don't necessarily notice them getting worse. But they all do get worse over a lifetime, and while everything's ticking along fine, you just habitually smoke not paying much attention to any of them, but if something bad happens and forces you to notice... and take stock... then that might prompt a quit attempt. Which if it fails, just leads to feelings of powerlessness, shame, resigned acceptance and more mental gymnastics of ignoring and mentally minimising the negatives which by then feel more and more unchangeable. Just basically the vicious cycles of any addiction.

It's hard to explain how the taste thing works; if I was to burn some random paper and inhale that, I'd smell it and taste it and it would be disgusting, but somehow, with smoking, the smell and taste of smoke essentially disappears after time (perceptually), somehow dependent on the habits formed and your nicotine needs at the time. Whereas once you start to quit smoking, the ability to smell it (as smoke) starts to return, so that it becomes unpleasant to be around other people smoking, when before that you wouldn't have even noticed the smell. So basically, I don't really understand it either how it can have a flavour, especially since by the time you taste it it is being burned, but it does... every tobacco brand tastes different, and every smoker has their favourite brands and can discern them by taste... and that taste that is being discerned is not experienced as the taste of smoke - or not as it would be for any other type of smoke.

Basically when faced with a temptation there's ultimately two ways of resisting that temptation; either through a) will-power and abstinence, which is not easy if you're particularly impulsive, as I am, or b) by changing how you perceive the temptation, making it less desirable, or ideally, completely undesirable.

I heard Jim Parsons (Sheldon from Big Bang Theory) describe how he quit smoking once.  He said that he had gone to the doctor and his doctor had asked him whether he enjoyed smoking.  He answered that of course he enjoyed it, if he didn't he would quit.  The doctor replied that they didn't think he actually did enjoy it.  After all, a person who enjoys wine doesn't get drunk every day in an effort to enjoy wine, they have one or two glasses and savor them.  So they asked Jim to try treating cigarettes like wine and see if he can savor them rather than just suck them down and "get drunk" every day on them.  So he tried it, and he got to the point where he was smoking one cigarette a day.  Then he got off a plane one evening and went to get a taxi or go to his car or something and he realized that he hadn't had his cigarette yet that day and that he should stop and smoke it.  But then he thought that was silly, he didn't HAVE to smoke it, so he went about his business and was done smoking.

Perhaps in your effort to quit you might think about ways to reframe smoking for yourself in a similar way to how Jim did.  Rather than think of them as something that is there for you through thick and thin, could you think about them as an emotional crutch you can outgrow?  Can you think of ways in which you can replace the urge to smoke during stressful times with something other, more healthy, behavior?

It seems to me like you want to become the sort of ex-smoker that no longer even wants to smoke, but it also seems to me that there is some emotional component that you might still need to work on to get to that place so that when those stressful times return that you have other tools you can use to get through it rather than going back to cigarettes.  Does that make sense?

I have tried similar ideas to that... to be mindful of the taste of fags... to see if I really do enjoy it... but I don't have much success with that; I have trouble catching my emotions and feelings in the act when I go looking for them... so though I can't explain exactly what it is I enjoy about the smoking experience, I know that nonetheless there is something. But interesting idea.

I'm not hugely worried about that... since I have fourteen weeks to work on it and I think all the work I do on triggers etc in those weeks, of which in just five days I already feel like I've achieved loads, will at least indirectly change my perception of cigarettes themselves and what they're good for (or not as the case may/will hopefully be). Not only that, but I'm also trying to put some distance as it were between my old behaviour and new... so I've got my old exercise bike out and tentatively started using it (and enjoying it)... I want to get aerobically fit, which is something that is pretty hard and/or pointless as a smoker because of all the carbon-monoxide in your blood. So basically I'm feeling very positive and confident right now, feeling physically and sensationally revitalised and healthier in a lot of ways, and want to work on improving all of that, so that when the time comes to come off the Champix, the contrast between old me and new me will be stark and thus hopefully further motivation to stay quit

As for finding replacements for fags in stressful situations, I've got chewing gum and finding eating is doing the trick... which is another reason I need to exercise; because I'm putting on weight quite rapidly in all this so I need to burn it off. But better than that, I think I'm learning not to be reliant on breaks the same way I was as a smoker (when fags basically marked the start, end, and transitions between activities plus many other triggers besides), so instead of the perception of cigarettes themselves changing, it might just be that the perception of the need for those transitional breaks changes, which hopefully might amount to the same thing

[Shell B]

Hey, Cathooloo, you're still a pedophile nigger, you fag.

I wonder who you might actually be. Definitely not for long.

[brewer]

Hey, Cathooloo, you're still a pedophile nigger, you fag.

I wonder who you might actually be. Definitely not for long.

I'm so bummed that I never make this guys hit list.

[LastPoet]

I wonder who you might actually be. Definitely not for long.

I'm so bummed that I never make this guys hit list.

And yet I became his nemesis. Mabe I let the rookies take care of him. The mighty gang of jerkoffs needs to grow.

Fucker must be off his meds again.

[Fireball]

I wonder who you might actually be. Definitely not for long.

I'm so bummed that I never make this guys hit list.

Zero Klassen back at it like a pencil-armed geek.

[LastPoet]

I wonder who you might actually be. Definitely not for long.

I'm so bummed that I never make this guys hit list.

Don't be discouraged. Training, good eating habits and dislike of nazis should do the trick.

[Angrboda]

I love everything about smoking, except the price and health effects. If it weren't for those, I'd smoke like a chimney every day of my life.

[WinterHold]

I love everything about smoking, except the price and health effects.  If it weren't for those, I'd smoke like a chimney every day of my life.

I smoke.
I didn't know that sea snakes smoke or want to smoke.