(July 17, 2018 at 9:20 pm)Joods Wrote: Quitting smoking is the best thing you can do. And it's never too late. I quit after 36 years of smoking.

Yeah... it just takes a while to realise that... like I'm viewing this in completely different ways than I thought I would... and partly because I'm actually doing it rather than just thinking about it/fearing it. Iow I never thought in a million years than I'd see any of the positive sides of this, but little by little I'm finding I am Well done btw for getting as far as you have with yours

When you really want it and you can mentally get to a place where you are ready, it will be easy.

(July 17, 2018 at 9:22 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(July 17, 2018 at 9:07 pm)emjay Wrote: Thanks Joods Surprisingly I actually do think I can do this... but that's a new experience in itself, having confidence in this. I just fear it's too little too late... I had to have some tests done and I'm supposed to get the results for that on Friday... on the understanding that if it was bad they would need to do surgery but they couldn't do it... ie it would be pointless to do it... unless I fully quit smoking, hence my current efforts. On top of that I'm worried about my throat as well, which feels very weird and I need to talk to the doctor about. But on the plus side if I do have any of these things, I would think they'd all be best served by me quitting smoking, if nothing else other than not to exacerbate them... so it's worth doing no matter what the results.

My youngest brother contracted laryngeal cancer, and was treated via surgery (first), then radiation and chemo. I seriously hope you do not have to experience that regimen.

I know this is probably easier saying this now than if I was actually faced with the choice... but I kind of already decided that if... then I'd never go down the chemo/radiation route... I'd rather die than that. Thankfully the thing they're testing me for does not have any expectations beyond relatively simple surgery. But as to my throat... that's something I haven't discussed in much depth with the doctor yet and could, at least in part, be psychosomatic... hopefully.

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(July 17, 2018 at 9:32 pm)Joods Wrote: When you really want it and you can mentally get to a place where you are ready, it will be easy.

Yeah.. I'm looking forward to that sort of feeling; although I think I'm doing pretty well I don't feel confident in the sense that you do/did... I think I can do it but the temptation remains, at least for the moment, in the sense that I still idealise them, but I think you said that you basically said you'd had enough of them? And since then you've further worsened your opinion of them? So I'm looking forward to that happening... and hoping it does... that I actually come to change the way I perceive them... from positive to negative.

Way to go Emjay, keep it up!

(July 17, 2018 at 9:40 pm)emjay Wrote: Yeah.. I'm looking forward to that sort of feeling; although I think I'm doing pretty well I don't feel confident in the sense that you do/did... I think I can do it but the temptation remains, at least for the moment, in the sense that I still idealise them, but I think you said that you basically said you'd had enough of them? And since then you've further worsened your opinion of them? So I'm looking forward to that happening... and hoping it does... that I actually come to change the way I perceive them... from positive to negative.

For me, I just got to the point where I was sick of my dependence on cigarettes. I had finally had enough. That's just where my mind was.

Been looking up recipes.
Next week I'm cutting out sugar, milk and gluten for three months.
Although I'll be reintroducing fruits after six weeks.

(July 17, 2018 at 9:07 pm)emjay Wrote: Thanks Joods Surprisingly I actually do think I can do this... but that's a new experience in itself, having confidence in this. I just fear it's too little too late... I had to have some tests done and I'm supposed to get the results for that on Friday... on the understanding that if it was bad they would need to do surgery but they couldn't do it... ie it would be pointless to do it... unless I fully quit smoking, hence my current efforts. On top of that I'm worried about my throat as well, which feels very weird and I need to talk to the doctor about. But on the plus side if I do have any of these things, I would think they'd all be best served by me quitting smoking, if nothing else other than not to exacerbate them... so it's worth doing no matter what the results.

The best thing you could do if suffering from a smoking-related condition is still to quit smoking.  Quitting reduces your risk of so many things that you expose yourself to by continuing to smoke that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, IMO.

Good luck on your test results, I hope you get positive news!

(July 17, 2018 at 9:40 pm)emjay Wrote:

(July 17, 2018 at 9:22 pm)Fireball Wrote: My youngest brother contracted laryngeal cancer, and was treated via surgery (first), then radiation and chemo. I seriously hope you do not have to experience that regimen.

I know this is probably easier saying this now than if I was actually faced with the choice... but I kind of already decided that if... then I'd never go down the chemo/radiation route... I'd rather die than that.

Bullshit.

Take it from someone who has just been through chemo and radiation: it's not that hard and it's not that scary.

Quote:Thankfully the thing they're testing me for does not have any expectations beyond relatively simple surgery. But as to my throat... that's something I haven't discussed in much depth with the doctor yet and could, at least in part, be psychosomatic... hopefully.

I hope it turns out to be something relatively easy to treat with few lasting effects, or that it's psychosomatic.

Quote:

(July 17, 2018 at 9:32 pm)Joods Wrote: When you really want it and you can mentally get to a place where you are ready, it will be easy.

Yeah.. I'm looking forward to that sort of feeling; although I think I'm doing pretty well I don't feel confident in the sense that you do/did... I think I can do it but the temptation remains, at least for the moment, in the sense that I still idealise them

May I ask how you idealize them?

(July 18, 2018 at 10:35 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote:

(July 17, 2018 at 9:07 pm)emjay Wrote: Thanks Joods Surprisingly I actually do think I can do this... but that's a new experience in itself, having confidence in this. I just fear it's too little too late... I had to have some tests done and I'm supposed to get the results for that on Friday... on the understanding that if it was bad they would need to do surgery but they couldn't do it... ie it would be pointless to do it... unless I fully quit smoking, hence my current efforts. On top of that I'm worried about my throat as well, which feels very weird and I need to talk to the doctor about. But on the plus side if I do have any of these things, I would think they'd all be best served by me quitting smoking, if nothing else other than not to exacerbate them... so it's worth doing no matter what the results.

The best thing you could do if suffering from a smoking-related condition is still to quit smoking.  Quitting reduces your risk of so many things that you expose yourself to by continuing to smoke that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, IMO.

Good luck on your test results, I hope you get positive news!

Yeah, that's basically how I'm thinking about it now... and thanks

Quote:

(July 17, 2018 at 9:40 pm)emjay Wrote: I know this is probably easier saying this now than if I was actually faced with the choice... but I kind of already decided that if... then I'd never go down the chemo/radiation route... I'd rather die than that.

Bullshit.

Take it from someone who has just been through chemo and radiation: it's not that hard and it's not that scary.

It's a bit awkward talking about this with you, since you've been through it... and judging by what you've said.. from your questions about smoking, I get the impression yours wasn't smoking related? Which if the case makes it even more awkward, because if it's the case for me, it will have basically been self-imposed, since I smoke/d. So yeah, awkward I guess is the word for it... somehow disrespectful... like nothing I could say or speculate about it could do it justice and whether I'd even have the right to, since if true it would be no-one's fault but by own, and also, because I'm a worrier so I always tend to 'catastrophise'... so again, awkward if it turns out there was little risk of actual cancer, at least immediately. The thing they're testing is 'leukoplakia'... which is something in the mouth, caused by smoking and mostly cured by not smoking, that can turn cancerous but not necessarily, so Friday's test results, are to find out what it is in that regard, but with the doctor's not particularly worried at this point in time.

Quote:

Quote:Thankfully the thing they're testing me for does not have any expectations beyond relatively simple surgery. But as to my throat... that's something I haven't discussed in much depth with the doctor yet and could, at least in part, be psychosomatic... hopefully.

I hope it turns out to be something relatively easy to treat with few lasting effects, or that it's psychosomatic.

I saw the doctor about it today, and he doesn't think there's anything to worry about, putting it down to most likely stress and/or acid reflux... so basically it could well be psychosomatic in that sense. Which is a bit of a relief but I'm a worrier by nature so I'll probably need to hear that a few more times/by a few more doctors until I start to really believe it. But he did do a very thorough feel-around of my neck, ruling things out as he went, including cancer, so that's comforting. So looking at it positively, it's hopefully just a storm I have to weather.... that I'm not going to just instantly heal after twenty odd years of heavy smoking... it'll take some time.

Quote:

Quote:Yeah.. I'm looking forward to that sort of feeling; although I think I'm doing pretty well I don't feel confident in the sense that you do/did... I think I can do it but the temptation remains, at least for the moment, in the sense that I still idealise them

May I ask how you idealize them?

Just the same ways any smoker does... of a pleasant and satisfying taste... and of something that's there for you through thick and thin. Basically the great smoker's delusion... quite similar to what Homer Simpson said about alcohol "the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" ... something that, though it can be intellectually known that it is a delusion... that it causes stress and then relieve the same stress it causes, all the while octopus-like attaching itself to all areas of you life as triggers... is nonetheless emotionally powerful... especially when you're impulsive and addiction-prone like me. So that's part of why I felt I needed this drug, Champix, when others might have been able to quit without it and or in different ways, more will-power orientated ways... as I've tried to quit many times before in those other ways, without any enduring success.

Basically when faced with a temptation there's ultimately two ways of resisting that temptation; either through a) will-power and abstinence, which is not easy if you're particularly impulsive, as I am, or b) by changing how you perceive the temptation, making it less desirable, or ideally, completely undesirable. One of Champix's effects is to work on b) to change how cigarettes are perceived and make them less pleasant/satisfying, and it worked in that regard... making them taste bland... and thus much less desirable. That was the main reason I wanted this drug in particular, but now having used it, I've found that though that is a useful effect, I'd surprisingly call it supplementary to the main beneficial effect, which I'm seeing as it's ability to consistently reduce the need and thus the cravings... which I guess you could call ©... a third way of dealing with a temptation; reducing the need for it, which Champix is doing far more than I ever expected it would. At the end of the day, what I'm saying by all of this is that there are basically two types of ex-smokers in my experience, those that still miss cigarettes... and were it not for whatever reasons they quit (usually fear-based), would happily light up again, even ten years down the line etc... and those that don't... the latter having changed their emotional perception of cigarettes into something less desirable if not utterly disgusting to them. The former type is always at risk of restarting smoking after quitting but the latter type is much less at risk since it requires no ongoing willpower to resist something you no longer want. So for me, though I'd still class myself as the former now, I hope that in time it will become the latter... the course of Champix is meant to last at least fourteen weeks... so I can only hope that during that time I sufficiently deal with my psychological attachment to smoking so that I stay quit once I'm off the stuff, and hopefully see cigarettes in a whole new light. Time will tell on that though. But even if that doesn't happen, and I basically end up dependent on the Champix in order to stay off the cigarettes..., I'd much rather that - just a couple of pills a day - than smoking.

(July 18, 2018 at 1:26 pm)emjay Wrote: It's a bit awkward talking about this with you, since you've been through it... and judging by what you've said.. from your questions about smoking, I get the impression yours wasn't smoking related? Which if the case makes it even more awkward, because if it's the case for me, it will have basically been self-imposed, since I smoke/d. So yeah, awkward I guess is the word for it... somehow disrespectful... like nothing I could say or speculate about it could do it justice and whether I'd even have the right to, since if true it would be no-one's fault but by own, and also, because I'm a worrier so I always tend to 'catastrophise'... so again, awkward if it turns out there was little risk of actual cancer, at least immediately. The thing they're testing is 'leukoplakia'... which is something in the mouth, caused by smoking and mostly cured by not smoking, that can turn cancerous but not necessarily, so Friday's test results, are to find out what it is in that regard, but with the doctor's not particularly worried at this point in time.

I don't think anyone would be down on you about it, unless they're a real dick. Getting sick is getting sick, and we all can sympathize, regardless of the cause. And we've all done things we regretted doing. Nobody is special. We all deal with bad things, and the important thing to do when somebody is going through something bad is to support them. Unless of course, as noted, you're a dick. So I wouldn't worry about people blaming you for having caused any illness that you might suffer. And if they do, they're just assholes anyway, so fuck 'em.

(July 18, 2018 at 1:49 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 18, 2018 at 1:26 pm)emjay Wrote: It's a bit awkward talking about this with you, since you've been through it... and judging by what you've said.. from your questions about smoking, I get the impression yours wasn't smoking related? Which if the case makes it even more awkward, because if it's the case for me, it will have basically been self-imposed, since I smoke/d. So yeah, awkward I guess is the word for it... somehow disrespectful... like nothing I could say or speculate about it could do it justice and whether I'd even have the right to, since if true it would be no-one's fault but by own, and also, because I'm a worrier so I always tend to 'catastrophise'... so again, awkward if it turns out there was little risk of actual cancer, at least immediately. The thing they're testing is 'leukoplakia'... which is something in the mouth, caused by smoking and mostly cured by not smoking, that can turn cancerous but not necessarily, so Friday's test results, are to find out what it is in that regard, but with the doctor's not particularly worried at this point in time.

I don't think anyone would be down on you about it, unless they're a real dick.  Getting sick is getting sick, and we all can sympathize, regardless of the cause.  And we've all done things we regretted doing.  Nobody is special.  We all deal with bad things, and the important thing to do when somebody is going through something bad is to support them.  Unless of course, as noted, you're a dick.  So I wouldn't worry about people blaming you for having caused any illness that you might suffer.  And if they do, they're just assholes anyway, so fuck 'em.

Thanks for the sentiment Jorm But I was mainly worried about being insensitive to CM there... worried about inadvertently trivialising, misrepresenting, or otherwise being ignorant or inappropriate when talking about a very serious subject.