"You are not yet 50"

[DeistPaladin]

For those more knowledgeable of ancient Hebrew culture, can you help me with this one:

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him [Jesus], Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

In modern conversation, this would suggest that Jesus was pushing 50. It wouldn't make much sense to say such a thing to a 30 year old. Why else pick the number 50 rather than underscore the point of JC's youth and pick a closer number (35 or 40)? Is there something special about that particular age?

[Captain Colostomy]

Just a shot in the dark, but Jews have a fifty year cycled event called Jubilee. It is basically used as a nullification of debts. (Property wise.) May be this is alluding to Jesus' perceived break with traditional Judaism? Seeing the first Jew would amount to admitting the contract has been broken. The land being currently controlled by Rome makes seeing Abraham a possible stab at renewed autonomy, too, i suppose.

Just guessing out loud here, I admit.

[max-greece]

Apart from the obvious possibility that Jesus had not aged well and that therefore they took him to be older than he was there is a vague sort of idea in Judaism that 50 is an age of maturity when you have a right to opine on issues. At the same time there was a sense that anyone who died before making it to 50 had died young - even back then.

[Captain Colostomy]

Apart from the obvious possibility that Jesus had not aged well and that therefore they took him to be older than he was there is a vague sort of idea in Judaism that 50 is an age of maturity when you have a right to opine on issues. At the same time there was a sense that anyone who died before making it to 50 had died young - even back then.

This is the safer bet, i believe. Kabbalah, a later development, traditionally held 40 to be the magic number. Jews like their life events well defined, no doubt.

Still, I like the conspiracy aspect of my previous post. It appeals to my subversive nature.

[max-greece]

Apart from the obvious possibility that Jesus had not aged well and that therefore they took him to be older than he was there is a vague sort of idea in Judaism that 50 is an age of maturity when you have a right to opine on issues. At the same time there was a sense that anyone who died before making it to 50 had died young - even back then.

This is the safer bet, i believe. Kabbalah, a later development, traditionally held 40 to be the magic number. Jews like their life events well defined, no doubt.

Still, I like the conspiracy aspect of my previous post. It appeals to my subversive nature.

Yes - it did get lowered at some point due to a distinct lack of longevity amongst Jews (although rarely due to natural causes).

Basically being Jewish is a bit like getting cancer - it may well kill you - but its not contagious.

[Anomalocaris]

Fifty is roughly the life expectancy of the laboring classes in the classical world for those who have succeeded in avoiding the high rate of infant and childhood mortality. To reach 50 means one is bordering on senility. So perhaps Fifty is simply a cultural short hand for "old enough to have seen something of the world"?

[Tonus]

Maybe the Greek word for "fifty years old" could also mean "drunk out of your skull"?

[Angrboda]

It's also possible it's just idiom, like saying someone is "as old as the hills."

[Drich]

here is another translation.

57 The Jews said to Jesus, “What? How can you say you have seen Abraham? You are not even 50 years old!”

[Minimalist]

As long as you want to go there, let's not forget that one of the primary inventors of xtianity was Irenaeus of Lyon and in Against Heresies he wrote:


http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/te...book2.html

5. They, however, that they may establish their false opinion regarding that which is written, "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," maintain that He preached for one year only, and then suffered in the twelfth month. [In speaking thus], they are forgetful to their own disadvantage, destroying His whole work, and robbing Him of that age which is both more necessary and more honourable than any other; that more advanced age, I mean, during which also as a teacher He excelled all others. For how could He have had disciples, if He did not teach? And how could He have taught, unless He had reached the age of a Master? For when He came to be baptized, He had not yet completed His thirtieth year, but was beginning to be about thirty years of age (for thus Luke, who has mentioned His years, has expressed it: "Now Jesus was, as it were, beginning to be thirty years old," when He came to receive baptism); and, [according to these men, ] He preached only one year reckoning from His baptism. On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years, and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify;

Irenaeus wrote c 185 AD. It would seem that certain parts of the story were not fully developed even by then!