"Discussing" circumcision with a child???

[Something completely different]

In the latest twist in a controversy that has divided Germans, a regional court has ruled that doctors need to discuss circumcision procedures with the child before they can be carried out.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germ...24984.html


This comes one year after the regional high court of cologne banned circumcission, and the ruling being overturned later by the federal high court.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

According to the judges, the mother has an inherent right to decide whether to have the procedure performed as long as the child cannot make that decision himself. However, they also ruled that the parents and doctors are obliged to inform the child "in a manner appropriate to his age and development" about the procedure and be mindful of his wishes.

I don't get it.

The child cannot decide for himself but has wishes? You are mindful of that but somehow the child can't decide? Is this saying the child is incapable of deciding or that he is not allowed to decide for himself?

If the child is incapable of deciding isn't that all the reason in the world not to perform a procedure on him?! Rather than say let's do it now before he gets old enough to refuse?

And we should acknowledge that a child's brain is not fully developed and doesn't have the life experience and knowledge needed to make important decisions. I don't know, will you allow parents to perform unnecessary cosmetic surgery on their child just because they believe it will be better for them? Exposing your child to health risks for an elective procedure is hardly healthcare is it? You can choose to expose yourself to these risks when you're old enough, and that may encompass the realm of mental health where doing modifications to yourself will make you happier. But can we sufficiently show that circumcision benefits a child? Because if we are to weight the benefit and costs of the procedure. Personally I won't risk my own child just so others will think he is worthy of respect, if they don't think he is, just fuck off.

[Silver]

The problem with that is the pain of the procedure which can be remembered after a certain age. No male who was circumcised as an infant has a memory of the procedure and thus does not recall the pain of it.

[Something completely different]

The big issue here is the jewish community.

And I have to admit that my judgement on this subject is also clouded by emotion.

60 years after WW2 I still dont feel comfortable with telling a jew that part of his culture is bad.

Even although every principle I stand for tells me that circumcision of children is wrong.

[Anomalocaris]

[quote='The Germans are coming' pid='513353' dateline='1380324168']

In the latest twist in a controversy that has divided Germans, a regional court has ruled that doctors need to discuss circumcision procedures with the child before they can be carried out.

Any members of the catholic clergy volunteered to act as intermediary yet??

[Silver]

Even although every peinciple I stand for tells me that circumcision of children is wrong.

I personally see no problem with circumcision. I am glad that I have a circumcised penis as opposed to an uncircumcised one.

I am glad that my parents decided for me to be circumcised when I was an infant rather than have to possibly endure the pain as an adult if I needed the procedure.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

The problem with that is the pain of the procedure which can be remembered after a certain age. No male who was circumcised as an infant has a memory of the procedure and thus does not recall the pain of it.

Anesthesia?

---

Ok, I looked up wiki:

A 2009 Cochrane meta-analysis of studies done on sexually active men in Africa found that circumcision reduces the infection rate of HIV among heterosexual men by 38–66% over a period of 24 months.[10] The WHO recommends considering circumcision as part of a comprehensive HIV program in areas with high endemic rates of HIV, such as sub-Saharan Africa,[11][12] where studies have concluded it is cost-effective against HIV.[11] Circumcision reduces the incidence of HSV-2 infections by 28%,[13] and is associated with reduced oncogenic HPV prevalence[14] and a reduced risk of both UTIs and penile cancer,[5] but routine circumcision is not justified for the prevention of those conditions.[2][15] Studies of its protective effects against other sexually transmitted infections have been inconclusive. A 2010 review of literature worldwide found circumcisions performed by medical providers to have a median complication rate of 1.5% for newborns and 6% for older children, with few severe complications.[16] Bleeding, infection and the removal of either too much or too little foreskin are the most common complications cited.[16][17] Circumcision does not appear to have a negative impact on sexual function.[18]

6% is too high to just brush off no? I think to qualify as a healthcare measure, should consider the risks of his chances of getting the diseases/conditions mentioned, if it's less than 1.5% or less than 6% then it's not worth it, and then the cost isn't justified. Assuming the info here is accurate.

[Psykhronic]

Circumcision is useless - barring any severe problems with the foreskin.

[Captain Colostomy]

Circumcision is useless - barring any severe problems with the foreskin.

It makes your junk look smaller, and for tripods such as myself, that's a boon when dealing with the more modest ladies out there.

[NoraBrimstone]

Genital mutilation of infants for non-medical reasons is about as abusive as you can get. "They're too young to remember" is no excuse. By that logic, you could justify a parent physically or sexually abusing a child because "They won't remember." Except circumcision is worse than those, because circumcision is permanent damage to the child's body.

I get that it's promoted in the US, and that's for the exact same reason that women are made to stay in hospital for several days after giving birth over there: Money. The benefits of circumcision are too small to be justified. Ever noticed that the rest of the civilised world don't routinely circumcise their kids, yet these penile infections that would apparently be rampant in the US if people didn't mess about with their children's dicks are still pretty rare?