Science and Religion

[max-greece]

You know you guys are arguing with a fundie that took to the hills yesterday.

I'll be amazed if he resurfaces.

[ManMachine]

You know you guys are arguing with a fundie that took to the hills yesterday.

I'll be amazed if he resurfaces.

I have this strange compulsion that causes songs to go off in my head when I read certain phrases... got... to ... fight... it....





Bugger!



MM

[Simsim]

I think one of the biggest myths is that religion / Theism is at odds with science. That is, the more we discover, the more it "buries" God.
This post typically looks at how "naïve" ancient religious were and that they did not have an understanding of the world, and the more we discover the world, it highlights how ignorant people were back then.

Science and religion answer DIFFERENT questions and attempt to gain different knowledge about the world.

Let me use an analogy.

Suppose we are in the late 17th century (the year the first motor vehicle) was built.

Lets suppose you are walking down a country track by yourself and you see this motor vehicle parked and their is no one around it. Lets also assume, you don't know what you are seeing, you never knew anything about a motor vehicle, you don't know its purpose. Basically, you see a chunk of metal in front of you.

You go up to it and look with amazement, you kick the wheel softly and you go inside and you think "what is this"?. Then slowly, slowly you turn the steering wheel and you realise the wheel turns etc etc. You turn on the engine etc etc and you begin to realise that this is a transporter. It transports you from location to location. It has a purpose. You are happy, ecstatic. You look around you and their is no one around The designer is not around, no one. No one knew anything about it. Days go past and you realise this is the best thing. You are happy. It is taking you from place to place. What a difference it has made to your life. Logically, it is reasonable to expect that this thing Is designed with the intent of transporting you. All at the same time, you are IGNORANT of the mechanics of how the thing works, ie, mechanics, combustion etc etc. You have no idea how it works. However, everyday, you are praising everyday in your mind the creator of this great machinery. "What a great designer, how smart is he etc etc". This person in my example is like the Theist. Based on what he sees, he is reasonable to conclude that this piece of machinery is designed, even though he has never seen the designer, never had any "a priori' knowledge of cars etc etc.

Now, as time goes along, other people see this car and they investigate it, observe it, test it and find out how it works. In my example, this is like scientists. They are working out how things work, gaining knowledge etc etc.

Now, aren't BOTH parties correct and rational? The person who found the car, even though he was ignorant on how it worked, he just praised the designer he never saw and basically said "someone did this".....and the mechanics who figured out how it works? Aren't BOTH views correct?

Science is the study of the natural world, how things work, ie, thunder, lightning, weather, oceans etc etc etc. Theology is the study of the designer ete etc.

I don't see the conflict. They both attempt to answer different questions and attempt to gain different knowledge.

Regards, Tortino ! If this analogy was the case that would be impressively fantastic. The man who found the car doesn't just state that there is a designer but he claims also that the designer spoke to him and demanded praise for designing the car otherwise he would torture everybody who didn't discover his existence and didn't praise him. This is where science is in conflict with religion since you have no practical (or even theoretical) evidence that the designer spoke to some people or intervened directly in the machinery of car.

Also the man who found the car insists on that the designer made the car in a certain way. And again he has no evidence for such claims. He insists that the designer contacted him and told him that this was the right way of design.

Your analogy would be, to some extent, acceptable if it was deistic not theistic.

[Chas]

You do know that a giraffe has a useless nerve that goes from one ear, all the way down the neck, then back up to the other ear. Isn't the fastest path a straight line?

No, the nerve (recurrent laryngeal nerve) is far from useless, and all mammals have it.

"The recurrent laryngeal nerve (RLN) is a branch of the vagus nerve (tenth cranial nerve) that supplies motor function and sensation to the larynx (voice box)."

"Other than the cricothyroid muscle which is innervated by the superior laryngeal nerve, motor control of all the intrinsic muscles of the larynx, the thyroarytenoid, the posterior and lateral cricoarytenoid, and arytenoid muscles depends upon the recurrent laryngeal nerve. Additionally, it transmits sensory information from the mucous membranes of the larynx from the lower surface of the vocal fold, downwards."

[FallentoReason]

@OP

Except religion and science are generally at odds. Can you believe in the Bible literally *and* believe the Earth to be 4.5 billion years old? If the answer is "no", then that's an easy proof to show that religion in fact comes *before* you even begin your experiment via the scientific method. Then there's other direct contradictions between reality and what the Bible says; demons being the cause of sicknesses:

1) A demon of dumbness - Matthew 9:32, Luke 11:14
2) A demon of blindness and dumbness - Matthew 12:22
3) A demon possessed son (with epilepsy) - Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:17-25, Luke 39-42
4) A woman with a spirit of infirmity (bent forward) - Luke 13:11
http://www.biblestudying.net/demons2.html

So what do you suggest we do? Take the religious route and try faith healing, or go with scientific discoveries to try and cure these things?

To believe that science and religion aren't at odds is to take the first step of deconversion. You just don't know it yet.

[Ryantology]

Science and religion answer DIFFERENT questions and attempt to gain different knowledge about the world.

No. Science answers questions. Religion makes shit up.