the so fallible Bible

[Drich]

Seriously? Have you not read anything I have written? God speaks and interacts with His children through out their lives... So why haven't you heard anything? The same reason those who did not want to believe in Chirst 2000+ years ago heard nothing. Or simply dismissed what they did hear as the apstoles being drunks, and were playing games.

Why haven't I heard anything... hmm.. I guess everytime God speaks with a booming voice, I just *happen* to be covering my ears. And everytime there's a news report on TV about God's latest booming command, I just happen to be getting up off the couch to do something else.

You're avoiding the issue again.

I'm not avoiding anything. You simply do not understand, and are too prideful to ask a follow up question for clarity sake. I have told you all that in the past I come to a cross roads many times. I ask God a question, and no later I get the question out the preacher on the radio is giving me Book Chapter and Verse, the funny thing is I can turn that booming voices up down or off. Just like all of you can. Just like the guys 2000+ years ago did when they did not want to believe.

So again if you will not do what God has asked you to do, the why should He do anything for you?

---

Drich... put the doctrinal bong down... you keep spewing Apologist 101 responses to a question I haven't asked.

Here's the issue:

God is perfect. God wishes to transmit a message. He can do this *perfectly*. The Bible *isn't* perfect. Therefore, his *own* wish hasn't been met by his *own* actions. God is not perfect.

What is Gods "own wish?"

[FallentoReason]

I'm not avoiding anything. You simply do not understand, and are too prideful to ask a follow up question for clarity sake. I have told you all that in the past I come to a cross roads many times. I ask God a question, and no later I get the question out the preacher on the radio is giving me Book Chapter and Verse, the funny thing is I can turn that booming voices up down or off. Just like all of you can. Just like the guys 2000+ years ago did when they did not want to believe.

So again if you will not do what God has asked you to do, the why should He do anything for you?

"God works in mysterious ways" is *not* how the Bible depicts God. "God works in perceivable and tangible ways" is more like it.

What is Gods "own wish?"

To transmit his message... what you would generally call "Christianity", or the "Gospel" i.e. "Good News". Now address the issue!

[Drich]

I'm not avoiding anything. You simply do not understand, and are too prideful to ask a follow up question for clarity sake. I have told you all that in the past I come to a cross roads many times. I ask God a question, and no later I get the question out the preacher on the radio is giving me Book Chapter and Verse, the funny thing is I can turn that booming voices up down or off. Just like all of you can. Just like the guys 2000+ years ago did when they did not want to believe.

So again if you will not do what God has asked you to do, the why should He do anything for you?

"God works in mysterious ways" is *not* how the Bible depicts God. "God works in perceivable and tangible ways" is more like it.

What is Gods "own wish?"

To transmit his message... what you would generally call "Christianity", or the "Gospel" i.e. "Good News". Now address the issue!

What is the gospel? I'm looking for content what do you say it is?

[FallentoReason]

What is the gospel? I'm looking for content what do you say it is?

It's the stuff found in an imperfect book.

There's only so much mucking around I can handle, and we're close to crossing that threshold. Please, address the issue already, or admit God isn't perfect.

[Drich]

What is the gospel? I'm looking for content what do you say it is?

It's the stuff found in an imperfect book.

There's only so much mucking around I can handle, and we're close to crossing that threshold. Please, address the issue already, or admit God isn't perfect.

I've got some mucking still left to do.

For if you can outline the gospel, as the bible records the what does it matter if every I is dotted and every T crossed?

Even if you personally can't give the gospel I can. Which means the bible is Exactly what we need, and for those words of man may show to be in error once in a great while, it does not mean the message itself is not exactly what God wanted us to have, and be held accountable to.

It's just like in 1993 if I were to take a test on the planets of the solar system, I would have to had named Pluto as a planet. However if I took a test now and named Pluto a planet I would get that question wrong. Is it because the celestial body known as Pluto cease to exist? No. It just our understanding of Pluto and what makes a planet an planet has changed, and as such 'test takers' must be faithful to the information they have been given. Not what someone else maybe given over to know.

The same is true of God. One principle has been illustrated over and over and over again in Jesus' ministry. We will be held to account to what God has given us. To those who have been given little little is expected, but for those who have been given much, much is expected. We are not all expected to produce or yield the same fruit. If we were then we would need an absolutely infallible source to know exactly what God says. There would be no other way to meet that standard.

As it stands we have been told to do the best with what we have been given.

[FallentoReason]

It's the stuff found in an imperfect book.

There's only so much mucking around I can handle, and we're close to crossing that threshold. Please, address the issue already, or admit God isn't perfect.

I've got some mucking still left to do.

For if you can outline the gospel, as the bible records the what does it matter if every I is dotted and every T crossed?

Even if you personally can't give the gospel I can. Which means the bible is Exactly what we need, and for those words of man may show to be in error once in a great while, it does not mean the message itself is not exactly what God wanted us to have, and be held accountable to.

There shouldn't be error if a perfect being was responsible for the Bible. There is error though, therefore, God isn't perfect.

It's just like in 1993 if I were to take a test on the planets of the solar system, I would have to had named Pluto as a planet. However if I took a test now and named Pluto a planet I would get that question wrong. Is it because the celestial body known as Pluto cease to exist? No. It just our understanding of Pluto and what makes a planet an planet has changed, and as such 'test takers' must be faithful to the information they have been given. Not what someone else maybe given over to know.

The "perfect astronomer", in all his perfection, would give you the exact information about said celestial body. Guess work is out of the equation, but it's not the case with the Bible, therefore, God isn't perfect.

The same is true of God. One principle has been illustrated over and over and over again in Jesus' ministry. We will be held to account to what God has given us. To those who have been given little little is expected, but for those who have been given much, much is expected. We are not all expected to produce or yield the same fruit. If we were then we would need an absolutely infallible source to know exactly what God says. There would be no other way to meet that standard.

As it stands we have been told to do the best with what we have been given.

An unnecessary step if the Bible were from a perfect being.

[max-greece]

"God did not 'create' the bible."

If this is true, Drich, why did you jump through so many loops not more than 10 days ago to integrate the story (and that is the right word) of Genesis with current scientific theories as to the creation of the universe.

If God didn't create the Bible then whoever wrote Genesis did it off the top of their own heads. The writers were certainly not there.

Wouldn't it make much more sense - if all you really need is a synopsis of the gospel to simply write the whole of the creation story off as a simpler explanation for simpler times?

Your argument in this thread seems to be the Bible isn't an exact record because it doesn't have to be. All you need is the key message.

That's great an'all but the scope for misinterpretation of what the key message is must be huge, judging by the number of different variations of Christianity and how quick you are to disparage them.

You do seem to have a very confused take on your own beliefs sometimes, one that isn't consistent for any period of time.

[xpastor]

I give my time and some finances to the needy without the whole 'the lord will reward those who give to the needy' You xtians are nothing but hypocrits. I guarantee that if there is a hell, ill see you there

I don't think it is fair to suggest that all Christians are hypocrites. I knew some very good people among both the ministers and the lay folks ... and also some Class A jerks. I think the really earnest sincere ones know that they are not obeying Jesus' extreme commands (sell all that you have and give it to the poor) but they are confused because the teaching of the Bible is so self-contradictory, as I will show later.

[Tonus]

Only God is perfect, is the bible God? Then why should it be perfect? Perfection indicates deity and deity demands to be worshiped. We are only to worship God.

If god is perfect, yet cannot produce perfect works, he seems quite unimpressive. Are all Christians so lacking in standards?

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what is the point of redemption if God demands perfection?

Errr... Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

I suppose that this is where you point out that the Bible is an imperfect book, and therefore we can just ignore this obvious mistake by god's book.

[Cyberman]

That's where they wait for the second cumming.

Fixed it for you.

Thanks, it wasn't necessary.