Revelation 21 10-27

[Brakeman]

Many things get overlooked when reading the bible. I think
Revelation 21 10-27 is quite the gem. It raises so many questions that don't seem to follow modern xtian thought.

11 Having the glory of God: and her(?) light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Why would heaven need multiple gates, or any gates for that matter? What was it to keep in or out? Wild animals? Won't god just teleport you to heaven? Are you expected to walk? Why do the gates need naming? Is heaven racially segregated?

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
How does a wall have twelve foundations? Why does it matter what they are named? Who would care at that point? Wouldn't all christians be equals at that time?

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. Didn't god have a sears Craftsman laser measure? Would god really measure his kingdom with a stick?

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Why would god use materials that were precious to man? Rarity wouldn't be an issue for god. Why wouldn't it be made of the best building materials instead of gemstones? Why did god not use any of modern high tech building materials such as Aluminum, Platinum, Stainless steel? Pre-stressed concrete?

Why is heaven described like a 1st century primitive city instead of a 22 century modern utopia?
(Yes fellow atheists, I know it's because it was written by ignorant goat herders, but I want the Apologists response)

[Raven]

Because the creator wanted to go retro, that's why.

[Bucky Ball]

Many things get overlooked when reading the bible. I think
Revelation 21 10-27 is quite the gem. It raises so many questions that don't seem to follow modern xtian thought.

11 Having the glory of God: and her(?) light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Why would heaven need multiple gates, or any gates for that matter? What was it to keep in or out? Wild animals? Won't god just teleport you to heaven? Are you expected to walk? Why do the gates need naming? Is heaven racially segregated?

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
How does a wall have twelve foundations? Why does it matter what they are named? Who would care at that point? Wouldn't all christians be equals at that time?

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. Didn't god have a sears Craftsman laser measure? Would god really measure his kingdom with a stick?

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Why would god use materials that were precious to man? Rarity wouldn't be an issue for god. Why wouldn't it be made of the best building materials instead of gemstones? Why did god not use any of modern high tech building materials such as Aluminum, Platinum, Stainless steel? Pre-stressed concrete?

Why is heaven described like a 1st century primitive city instead of a 22 century modern utopia?
(Yes fellow atheists, I know it's because it was written by ignorant goat herders, but I want the Apologists response)

You think some drivel by someone hopped up on mushrooms SHOULD make sense ? :p

There were hundreds of these "revelation" texts. They were all the rage there for a while.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWjtXasqPFM

[Godscreated]

When God created heaven He didn't care what you thought about it, and why would you care, unless you're planing to change your heart.
Actually I think God built it out of material that we've never known, you ever see transparent gold.

GC

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

When God created heaven He didn't care what you thought about it, and why would you care, unless you're planing to change your heart.
Actually I think God built it out of material that we've never known, you ever see transparent gold.

Transparent or not, gold is a lousy building material. But that's not really the point.

Actually, when human beings created heaven, they created it out of rare materials - that which is rare tends to be both precious and desirable. This is why the Christian heaven doesn't have streets paved with goatskin, and why the Muslim paradise seems to take the form of an oasis.

It is a human trait to want what we haven't got (which, incidentally, makes the 10th commandment a bit of a mug's game), so we fill our fantasies not with commonalities, but with rarities.

For the record, do you seriously believe that Heaven is a physical place?

Boru

[Drich]

Many things get overlooked when reading the bible. I think
Revelation 21 10-27 is quite the gem. It raises so many questions that don't seem to follow modern xtian thought.

Keep in mind Heaven is not being described. New Jerusalem is being described. They are not the same place.

11 Having the glory of God: and her(?) light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Her meaning the city.

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Why would heaven need multiple gates, or any gates for that matter?

To separate those in the city from what is outside.

What was it to keep in or out? Wild animals?

Won't god just teleport you to heaven?

'We' don't/won't live in Heaven. We live on Earth.

Are you expected to walk? Why do the gates need naming? Is heaven racially segregated?

We will be segregated in accordance to what we were faithful to in this life. There will be different classes of people in Heaven. There will be those who narrowly escape the flames of hell, that bring nothing with them. then there are those who work dillegently who are storing up great riches.

How does a wall have twelve foundations?

Twelve foundations means they were built on the works of the twelve apstoles.

Why does it matter what they are named?

So you know how who built them.

Who would care at that point?

All who benfit from the wall.

Wouldn't all christians be equals at that time?

no. What we have will reflect what and who we are now.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. Didn't god have a sears Craftsman laser measure? Would god really measure his kingdom with a stick?

God did not measure the city John did. John understood how the 'stick' work so he was given one.

18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

Why would god use materials that were precious to man? Rarity wouldn't be an issue for god. Why wouldn't it be made of the best building materials instead of gemstones? Why did god not use any of modern high tech building materials such as Aluminum, Platinum, Stainless steel? Pre-stressed concrete?

why don't we use Gold to line our streets now? You said it just a min ago. It's rarity, and the value we place on those items because of how rare they are.

Now what if all of the precious things of man were now as common as the stuff we currently use as building material, their intrinsic value would plumit. Meaning in heaven the pricless things of man because as common building materials, which means our 'treasures/wealth' will be based on something else.

I understand that something else to be how close we are with God. In otherwords are we invited over to the big house to water ski and eat at banquet dinners or do we serve those dinners and drive/maintain the boat..

Why is heaven described like a 1st century primitive city instead of a 22 century modern utopia?
(Yes fellow atheists, I know it's because it was written by ignorant goat herders, but I want the Apologists response)

again not Heaven. Maybe read the whole Chapter and the one before it.

[max-greece]

"12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:"

Its just one gate for each tribe - they don't like mixing apparently.

Oh, wait a minute, no gate for the Christians....oh dear....ah well.....bad luck. The Jews were right afterall.

At least they had the decency to name the foundations of the walls after the disciples - so there's some acknowledgement.

[Drich]

"12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:"

Its just one gate for each tribe - they don't like mixing apparently.

Oh, wait a minute, no gate for the Christians....oh dear....ah well.....bad luck. The Jews were right afterall.

At least they had the decency to name the foundations of the walls after the disciples - so there's some acknowledgement.

To live in Jerusalem is the jew version of 'Heaven', Maybe what is described there is not for the rest of us because the rest of us maybe would not want to live there forever.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

When God created heaven He didn't care what you thought about it, and why would you care, unless you're planing to change your heart.
Actually I think God built it out of material that we've never known, you ever see transparent gold.

GC

(bolding mine)

If god is real, that would summarize all that he ever did. He didn't give a shit what people thought about it.

[max-greece]

"12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:"

Its just one gate for each tribe - they don't like mixing apparently.

Oh, wait a minute, no gate for the Christians....oh dear....ah well.....bad luck. The Jews were right afterall.

At least they had the decency to name the foundations of the walls after the disciples - so there's some acknowledgement.

To live in Jerusalem is the jew version of 'Heaven', Maybe what is described there is not for the rest of us because the rest of us maybe would not want to live there forever.

Fine with me, as long as I don't end up on the fourth floor - never been a big fan of emerald Green. Anyone know, offhand, what cleaner is safe to use on emerald anyway?

Can't help wondering though - why all the effort to describe someone else's heaven?