What do Theists Think About Atheists?

[Brian37]

Having been a Christian before I think they find themselves duty bound to try and convert/save us because it's what they're taught to believe and do. However I think they hold in contempt those who reject what have to say. I'm sure they think we're ignorant, lost, misled, and unfortunate people who are in for a rude awakening upon death, but of course that sentiment is completely reciprocal in how we see them.

They aren't very different from us really, both groups feel we have something great to offer that will enrich the other person's life and are sadly beating a dead horse. I think the difference between us and them though is that we don't feel threatened from genuinely listening to what a Christian (or whatever faith) has to offer, we can genuinely weigh both sides because we don't feel we have anything to lose by hearing what they has to say; they on the other hand I think might feel very threatening if they consider the fact that we may have a point so they choose to glaze over rather than genuinely hear the other person out.

It is not beating a dead horse. If humans never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

I used to believe too. I feel sorry for kids indoctrinated into any superstition and I feel sorry for adults that they cant see that it is a placebo, nothing more.

Humans can and do progress, we no longer believe the earth is flat. We no longer believe the sun is a god. They don't need poofbaby stories or zombie god stories.

[genkaus]

I don't have a traditional Hindu upbringing, so someone like genkaus who does have that background might be better able to answer how atheists are perceived from a traditional Hindu perspective. And Hinduism is an umbrella term which connotes a broad diversity of traditions, so it's likely not useful to generalize in the absence of an understanding of that diversity anyway.

Well, this could be a whole another debate on its own. The problem with determining the traditional Hindu perspective on atheism is that, as you said, Hinduism is an umbrella term and there are no set rules regarding who gets to be under that umbrella. As is typical with such loosely defined terms, people tend to adopt the No True Scotsman fallacy as a mantra - try to slap the label on anything they like and reasonably can and try to remove it from things they don't like. The religion known as Hinduism came about more as a reactionary nationalistic propaganda against invasions of other religious entities - the so called Hindu traditions are under that umbrella by the sole virtue of not being a part of Islamic or Christian traditions. Atheistic and materialistic philosophies like Carvaka, which predate the advent of "Hinduism" by many centuries are put under that umbrella because they originated in the Indian subcontinent.

To get a better idea, imagine if Greeks had put all of their cultural history - their mythology, rites and rituals, philosophies, cultural, ethnic and racial specificities - into one big messy package called "Greekism" and said that anyone who picks one or more of the set gets to call himself "Greeky". What would you expect the "traditional" Greeky perspective to be?

That's what a traditional Hindu perspective would be like. You can identify yourself as a Hindu if that's what you are comfortable with and whether or not other other Hindus accept your claim would depend upon their personal feelings about Hinduism and how comfortable they are around you. Actually, even if you reject the label for yourself, if you fit the rather broad paradigm of Hinduism, they'd have no problem in regarding you as a Hindu. Thus, the traditional perspective would be that being a Hindu is more a matter of how you appear to be rather than what you believe in.

To give a few examples:

I remember Bobby Jindal receiving quite a bit of media coverage the first time he was elected to a political office in which he was regarded as a Hindu and his "achievement" as one for Hinduism. Which, at the time, seemed nonsensical to me because a) he was a Catholic, b) he never was an Indian Citizen and c) he is your arch-typical Republican douchebag. But because he was of Indian origin and reached a prestigious office in another country, it meant that quite a few people were comfortable trying to tag him as "one of us".

Quite a few of celebrated Indian political figures are atheist - such as Amartya Sen. As a matter of fact, the first Prime Minister of India - Jawahar Lal Nehru - was an atheist. And yet, no one seems to have any problem in regarding them as Hindus as well.

Specific to beliefs, my mother is an atheist as well. But she doesn't identify herself as one. And given that she observes certain aspects typical of Hinduism - such as dietary restrictions, festivals etc. - even I regarded her as a Hindu and had no inkling of her atheism until I asked her about it directly.

And then there is me. I don't subscribe to any of so called Hindu philosophies. I disagree with most of "Hindu" politics. I reject a lot of cultural norms - like dress-code and dietary restrictions. I'm openly opposed to religious convictions. I avoid religious festivities and temples like the plague. My participation in holidays is simply due to the fact that it is a holiday. But, I look like a Hindu, I talk with a Hindi accent, I have a Hindu name and I come from a Hindu family - so as far as traditional perspective is concerned, I'm a Hindu who is not acting like one.

[Brian37]

I've always envisioned that they see us as drunk drivers.

Drunk sometimes maybe, but never mix it with driving.

They have drunks too, and god based crap 12 step programs that do nothing but replace one crutch with another.

[Polaris]

It really depends on the atheist.

Some atheists are some of the most intelligent people I have met and very liberal when it comes to respecting the cultures of others, while other atheists are some of the least educated (worse when they don't have a desire for further knowledge) and most bigoted (some even more than those stereotypical religious freaks in America) people you hope you will never meet.

But that's a view from a liberal perspective and not from a Christian perspective.....I guess I don't really care from a Christian perspective since all the issues I take with a select few atheists, sadly the most vocal, involve their lack of secular knowledge and lack of culture.

[FlyingNarwhal]

I've always envisioned that they see us as drunk drivers.

Drunk sometimes maybe, but never mix it with driving.

They have drunks too, and god based crap 12 step programs that do nothing but replace one crutch with another.

Nah I don't mean that they think we are literally drunk driving, just that they see us like we would see drunk drivers. Making a big mistake and putting the lives of the other people on the road at risk.

[arvind13]

-Your beliefs don't make you a better person, your behavior does-

Beliefs affect behaviors. If I believe that I can fly, and that belief causes me to leap from a bridge; would that not affect judgments of my personality? Would I have in fact been a "good" person, or an even better person if I had challenged my beliefs with greater scrutiny? What is a "good person"? Whether this quote is one of your own or not, I do not know, but I do challenge the position that suggests beliefs do not shape our ideologies, and in turn, our behaviors, and next, our reputation.

you bring up a very interesting issue Freedom from fallacy. Do beliefs determine behaviour?

On the surface, this might seem like a very silly question, and it seems obvious that beliefs affect behaviour, but none of the sciences have been able to prove that.

The latest research in neurobiology seems to suggest otherwise. Infact, the conception of human beings as agents whose actions are determined by their intentions and belief states is unique to western culture and is an inheritance of Judeo-Christian theology.

[freedomfromforum]

Beliefs affect behaviors. If I believe that I can fly, and that belief causes me to leap from a bridge; would that not affect judgments of my personality? Would I have in fact been a "good" person, or an even better person if I had challenged my beliefs with greater scrutiny? What is a "good person"? Whether this quote is one of your own or not, I do not know, but I do challenge the position that suggests beliefs do not shape our ideologies, and in turn, our behaviors, and next, our reputation.

you bring up a very interesting issue Freedom from fallacy. Do beliefs determine behaviour?

On the surface, this might seem like a very silly question, and it seems obvious that beliefs affect behaviour, but none of the sciences have been able to prove that.

The latest research in neurobiology seems to suggest otherwise. Infact, the conception of human beings as agents whose actions are determined by their intentions and belief states is unique to western culture and is an inheritance of Judeo-Christian theology.

Tell me the beliefs of the NON-Western 9/11 hijackers didn't have an affect on their behavior the day they flew the planes into the buildings. I'm not sure where your 'neurobiology research' comes from, but I can assure you, that in my line of work the overwhelming evidence suggests that constructed concepts, (ideas), very much affect behavioral outcomes.

[arvind13]

well, for sure our actions and activities make use of concepts and beliefs, and our actions transmit concepts and ideas and beliefs. What I'm questioning is the causal relationship between actions on one hand and beliefs on the other.



Yes, we all attribute reasons and beliefs as to why we do something or other, but is this really so? Think of the simple act of getting up in the morning. Different people come up with different reasons/ideas why they get up in the morning (to go to work, to drop off somebody, to go to school etc, my boss will be mad if I'm late for work). But is it the reason or belief that causes the body to move out of bed? Because, even if you do not have a reason to get up, you will probably get up eventually. It is more likely that the act of getting up is caused by things like habit, the actions and events that preceded the act of getting up (actions causing other actions). In addition, there is also an individual's genetics and inborn tendencies.

The neurobiology research I had in mind was the Libet experiments.

But I digress: I'm getting way off topic. What i'm talking about has nothing to do with the topic of this thread: what do theists think of Atheists? Sorry

[Whateverist]

I would guess that many mainstream Christians consider atheists to be ingrates toward god. Many imagine that we are morally decrepit, mean spirited and loutish. It is the antitheists among us that are responsible for much of that impression, but we're all guilty of a lack of loyalty to the faith and of not loving god.

[genkaus]

well, for sure our actions and activities make use of concepts and beliefs, and our actions transmit concepts and ideas and beliefs. What I'm questioning is the causal relationship between actions on one hand and beliefs on the other.



Yes, we all attribute reasons and beliefs as to why we do something or other, but is this really so? Think of the simple act of getting up in the morning. Different people come up with different reasons/ideas why they get up in the morning (to go to work, to drop off somebody, to go to school etc, my boss will be mad if I'm late for work). But is it the reason or belief that causes the body to move out of bed? Because, even if you do not have a reason to get up, you will probably get up eventually. It is more likely that the act of getting up is caused by things like habit, the actions and events that preceded the act of getting up (actions causing other actions). In addition, there is also an individual's genetics and inborn tendencies.

The neurobiology research I had in mind was the Libet experiments.

On the contrary, the Libet experiments only make sense when the cause and effect are very close together. They become nonsensical in more complex scenarios. For example, I get out of bed because I have a reason to do so. Every morning I wake up, I consider how much I want to sleep vs. how mush work I have to do. On the days I don't have work, I go right back to sleep and sleep into the afternoon.