Calling Out Demolition Deniers

[Angrboda]

Christ almighty, Clinton was firing cruise missiles into Afghanistan in 98' on account of prior terrorist attacks from terrorists sheltered in Afghanistan, long before 9/11, and you think that America having plans prior to 9/11 is evidence of a conspiracy? Pull your head out of your ass, Rayaan. I suspected you had shit for brains from previous encounters, but this clinches it.

[Chas]

So this forum has a conspiracy wacko as an Administrator?

Wow. Just wow.

[Autumnlicious]

So this forum has a conspiracy wacko as an Administrator?

Wow. Just wow.

This may be news to you, but requirements for moderation takes the ability to evaluate reports and reach a consensus.

I don't agree with Rayaan on this matter, however I won't let that color my perceptions.

Doing the job effectively matters. All else is off the job opinion comparable to being just a normal member.

If you have concerns, you are more than welcome to email or PM staff members.

[bladevalant546]

What do yall think of this? I saw this on a friends page.

http://www.sunray22b.net/images/Flyer%20Page%202.jpg

[Brian37]

Bush lied to us, yes, but you are a moron if you think our government planted bombs in the towers.

I have already posted several things that support that scenario. All you did is say that I'm a moron if I believe that the government did it without presenting any kind of an argument.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-21489-po...#pid526917
http://atheistforums.org/thread-21489-po...#pid526920
http://atheistforums.org/thread-21489-po...#pid527344
http://atheistforums.org/thread-21489-po...#pid527640
http://atheistforums.org/thread-21489-po...#pid527645

I can go on ...

Spam and conspiracy crap doesn't cut it here. I shouldn't be surprised, you also have an invisible friend.

[Rayaan]

Christ almighty, Clinton was firing cruise missiles into Afghanistan in 98' on account of prior terrorist attacks from terrorists sheltered in Afghanistan, long before 9/11, and you think that America having plans prior to 9/11 is evidence of a conspiracy?

I didn't say that was "evidence" of a conspiracy, but it does give more support to the conspiracy. You know that there is a difference between evidence and support.

Secondly, that was only a part of the reason why I think 9/11 was a conspiracy. I said many other things on 9/11 (in this thread and elswhere) but you just took out that one single argument from this whole thread and you ran with that one only. So what about the:

Eyewitness to the explosions
Seismic wave evidence
Evidence of active thermite in the buildings
CIA whistleblower Susan Lindauer
The arrival of mysterious vans prior to the attacks
NORAD hijacking drills
Censorship of 9/11 whistleblowers
Destruction of the 9/11 tapes

and much more to come.


Looks like a lot of people forgot how to play 'connect the dots' ... oh well, sucks for you then ...

So this forum has a conspiracy wacko as an Administrator?

Wow. Just wow.

Just because I believe that 9/11 is a conspiracy doesn't mean that I'm a conspiracy wacko.

You also believe that all UFO sightings a conspiracy (and so do I), but does that necessarily mean that you're a "conspiracy wacko"?
And does that necessarily mean that you are wrong for believing that it's a conspiracy?

Of course, the answer is no.

Spam and conspiracy crap doesn't cut it here. I shouldn't be surprised, you also have an invisible friend.

I'll probably write the same thing in one of your threads one day when I disagree with you. It's a much better way to prove that someone is wrong, right?

"Spam and conspiracy crap doesn't cut it here."

Best response ever.

[Rayaan]

What do yall think of this? I saw this on a friends page.

http://www.sunray22b.net/images/Flyer%20Page%202.jpg

Nice, more things to add to my growing list now. Imma also search all that stuph on GOOGLE.


Unfortunately, I bet some people here won't even read any of that because they already think it's bogus before reading it.

And some people won't even click there.

[Creed of Heresy]

The links I provided cite sources from plenty of other sources that have confirmed the results of the plane crashes themselves being, to the letter, the one and only cause of the collapse of the towers. Again you have not addressed the simple fact that the impacts did not prematurely detonate nor jar any of the pre-planted explosives you and others have claimed existed at the scene of the attacks. Bombs are rather fickle devices...especially when they rely on thermite, which is a difficult enough material to work with for demolition or shaped purposes under ideal circumstances. It's been shown that the supports did not display any indicators of having been cut by thermite. The actual collapses themselves do not support the notion that the supports were cut by thermite charges, either, with several support elements being shown to have been broken at vastly different points, with most of them being seen with their lower-most break points being clearly seen with evidence instead of having failed because of sudden impact of thousands upon thousands of tons of weight crushing them and breaking them apart. On top of this is the fact that both towers were noted to have started collapsing at the top, with the initial downwards thrust falling upon the areas of impact, before the rest of the structures collapsed. If the bottom of the structures had been the reason for their collapse, this would not be the case; the collapse would have started at the lowermost points, with the structures having impacted down onto the ground from the cutting of the structural supports. Such was not the case. The blasts seen at the bottom happened immediately upon the upper portion coming down onto the points where the crashes had taken place. This would have been caused by the downward impact of the entire weight of the upper portions of the structures causing immense downwards seismic forces, which is what also would have caused the few structural supports that were seen with angular 'cuts' to demonstrate such characteristics as the immense amount of force pushed them not inwards but rather outwards. Most would have snapped, but given the irregular drop of the buildings [another thing, by the way, I'll bring up], sideways shearing wouldn't be unlikely.

The buildings were also seen to collapse with a slight angle into the area of the jet impacts, though an outright outwards toppling did not occur due to the physics involved, though debris was seen to be launched further outwards in those directions. This is to be expected due to the flames being hottest near the points of impact, as well as from the damage done to them from the impacts of the planes. Furthermore, glass was seen to erupt outwards from the windows near the bottom upon the initial collapse in several videos which you can undoubtedly find on youtube, especially of the second collapse.

The timeframes of collapse after impact were also fairly consistent with variation clearly being based on impact points. On top of what steel-workers and metallurgists have shown, the collapse of the buildings more or less happened within timeframes consistent with the loss of the structures' tensile strength, but only in retrospect. See, given the information on the loss of tensile strength given the heat applied, this essentially means the buildings were all but guaranteed to collapse at those timeframes. With this in mind, if the government was responsible, they would not have bothered with explosives, they would probably have been entirely aware of these circumstances and not have bothered, but the fact that conspiracy theorists and demolition assertionists continue to use this as the axiom of the entire affair displays that the foundation for it all is completely erroneous. This would also require the government to have orchestrated the attack by utilizing suicide jihadists who were affiliated with al-Qaeda.

This is untenable because while Osama welcomed US aid in Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded, he was largely silent up until the establishment of US bases in Saudi Arabia prior to the Gulf War because of his religious fanaticism. It is after this point that he began directing terrorist attacks against US assets with no benefit to the government whatsoever. It is stupidly irrational to believe that after these attacks that caused problems for the US government that suddenly he would switch his stance to working with the US again despite the presence of military bases still in Saudi Arabia which ran contrary to his overzealous beliefs. He needed no support from the US government to commit these attacks. They were prepared under the notice of the government.

Furthermore, there was nothing to gain by flying the plane into the Pentagon; this targeted essential US DoD personnel...and the DoD would have to be in on this. Meaning they'd be willing to sacrifice hundreds of personnel with high security clearance, essentially at random, too, and given high-echelon brass were present within the building it would mean they would be willing to die themselves for this hair-brained psychopathic endeavor. Finally, the fourth plane was brought down, and was intent on hitting the white house, again filled with important members of the administration, and was only stopped by the efforts of the brave souls aboard the plane who sacrificed their lives in a (successful) attempt to prevent their captors from causing any further damage.

On top of all this, Osama would also have been willing to allow the national government that enabled him his power and influence in the world to be pounded into the ground and rendered far less effectual in its capabilities for him, and would have been further willing to bog his resources down in a protracted insurgency, thus reducing his ability to strike at those he despised. This also does not account for the constant attacks against civilians, which would serve no purpose whatsoever towards enabling this conspiracy and instead would only make sense to be used as a means of destabilizing the economy of the country the conspiracy was supposedly intent on enforcing its control over, which would actually make that task harder, not easier.

None of this shit makes any fucking sense, Rayaan. You're grasping at straws and they're not even there for you to grab. The entire idea from the very beginning falls apart and after that the pieces get carried away by the force of simple logical deduction.

The government wasn't in on it. Not only is it ridiculously incapable of seeing its own international plots provide any payout worth the investments put in, it's also incapable of keeping shit like this a secret. Wikileaks has constantly gotten holds of hundreds of thousands of top-secret files and displayed them to the public. Are you not aware of the problem with complexity? The more complicated and intricate something gets, the more weaknesses and flaws and vulnerabilities present themselves.

Something of this scale and with this much complexity would have been exposed quite a while ago. One single whistleblower is all it would take; one guilty conscience. Human beings are not intrinsically evil. Being actively complicit in the mass murder of thousands of innocent fellow countrymen and women would eat at at least one person. By now, they would stewed more than long enough and what have broken.

The government wasn't in on it. Bush was, predictably, completely incapable of reacting to this situation effectively. The resulting hell-storm wrought on the Taliban and al-Qaeda was not a pre-determined course of action meant to be justified by a debilitating attack against the US; it was a reaction, and the initial ideas of attacking Afghanistan are sourced from a former Pakistani official. Forgive me if I have a hard time trusting the government of a nation that was either so incompetent that they didn't know the world's most wanted criminal was hiding right under their noses or they were such a bunch of backstabbing shitheads that they intentionally hid him from the rest of the world to protect him so that they could continue to profit from the "alliance" they had with the US via the aid programs being dumped into their country.

I, like so many others, declare this stupid conspiracy "theory" to be about as valid as the existence of Sasquatch.

[Brian37]

Look, give it up we lost, Obama is responsible for the dinos going extinct.

[Angrboda]

*plonk*