Christian Apologetics and Arguments are Futile

[bennyboy]

The Purple Space Monkey is all powerful and thoughtful with the design of the universe, why would It not be able to come down as an invisible fairy and put happy-bubbles in the soul believers so they can do the Monkey Dance of Joy?

See the problem? I've just made up a bunch of stuff. Whether I believe in it, or whether I can convince a billion others to believe their experiences are related to it, is irrelevant.

Yes I do, I do see the problem, you have shed light on this and the problem is you. That's the most ridiculous thing I've seen.

GC

Really? More ridiculous than a man with a magic walking stick parting a sea? More ridiculous than a giant boat big enough to hold two of every animal in the world, including insects? More ridiculous than a man getting swallowed by a giant fish until God commands the fish "Thou shalt spitteth Jonah out"? More than the Creator of All incarnating and using his time on Earth to do party tricks at wedding parties?

I don't know, dude. Magic Space Monkey isn't looking that crazy to me. Perhaps you'll explain why YOUR obviously-made-up-stuff is superior to MY obviously-made-up-stuff?

[Lemonvariable72]

Christ's "proof" that he was God was not just in miracles, but in actions and presentation of a ideas that were completely strange (like loving your enemy, and the poor inheriting the Earth). He also rose from the dead of His own volition. I think that helped seal the deal. This idea connects back the to idea that God could so all things.

It is a complete idea, whether you take it as truth or not.

Except that those ideas where not new at all and were postulated in indian philosophies such as jainism and buddhism as well

[bennyboy]

Christ's "proof" that he was God was not just in miracles, but in actions and presentation of a ideas that were completely strange (like loving your enemy, and the poor inheriting the Earth). He also rose from the dead of His own volition. I think that helped seal the deal. This idea connects back the to idea that God could so all things.

It is a complete idea, whether you take it as truth or not.

Except that those ideas where not new at all and were postulated in indian philosophies such as jainism and buddhism as well

So was the reincarnation of a deity after three days. So was the idea of deities taking human form. The fact that Jesus is such an amalgam of recycled religious ideas is actually the starting point for those who think he's a complete fiction.

Even the Christian narrative points to it: Jesus was a kid, and did nothing special. He traveled (just for hoots?) to Asia Minor , and came back saying things that suprised the locals. It's almost like he was a backpacker studying foreign religions, and then incorporated them into a new fusion religion, isn't it?

Why doesn't the Bible say what he was doing during that time? Obvious answer: because then everyone would know where his religious ideas really came from.

[GodsRevolt]

[quote='GodsRevolt' pid='534471' dateline='1383087215']


Except that those ideas where not new at all and were postulated in indian philosophies such as jainism and buddhism as well

Postulation is different from action. There is a difference between saying, "I wonder if you can come back from the dead," and actually coming back from the dead.

And the Christ story was never claimed to be completely original. The way it was acted out was completely original. They wanted Him to be a rich warrior king who would go on to conquer nations and live forever. No one expected Him to be a poor carpenter coming to teach these odd ideas (love your enemy, poor will inherit the world) and ultimately die. Even in His Own time, Christ was rejected by the masses. So, when you take a step back and think about it, not believing in Him now is what is truly unoriginal. Christ was the ultimate non-conformist, the ultimate rebel.

[Ryantology]

What makes your ridiculous fairy tales better than his ridiculous fairy tale? bennyboy has provided as much evidence supporting his as you have yours.

I'll save you some time: it's better because he believes it. Which is also the reason he refuses to consider the possibility that it may be wrong. It's really, unfortunately, that simple, here.

Yeah, I know, but there's no way in hell GC would be honest about anything on this topic. I was just curious to see what he would pull out of his ass.

[GodsRevolt]

Except that those ideas where not new at all and were postulated in indian philosophies such as jainism and buddhism as well

So was the reincarnation of a deity after three days. So was the idea of deities taking human form. The fact that Jesus is such an amalgam of recycled religious ideas is actually the starting point for those who think he's a complete fiction.

Even the Christian narrative points to it: Jesus was a kid, and did nothing special. He traveled (just for hoots?) to Asia Minor , and came back saying things that suprised the locals. It's almost like he was a backpacker studying foreign religions, and then incorporated them into a new fusion religion, isn't it?

Why doesn't the Bible say what he was doing during that time? Obvious answer: because then everyone would know where his religious ideas really came from.

BennyBoy, are you admitting that the gospels of Christ stem from a true person that actually existed?

Or are you making unfounded claims made popular in today's culture by prominent fiction?

Because admitting that Christ was a real person that actually existed is actually the first step to becoming a believer.

[Lemonvariable72]

Except that those ideas where not new at all and were postulated in indian philosophies such as jainism and buddhism as well

Postulation is different from action. There is a difference between saying, "I wonder if you can come back from the dead," and actually coming back from the dead.

And the Christ story was never claimed to be completely original. The way it was acted out was completely original. They wanted Him to be a rich warrior king who would go on to conquer nations and live forever. No one expected Him to be a poor carpenter coming to teach these odd ideas (love your enemy, poor will inherit the world) and ultimately die. Even in His Own time, Christ was rejected by the masses. So, when you take a step back and think about it, not believing in Him now is what is truly unoriginal. Christ was the ultimate non-conformist, the ultimate rebel.

there fixed the tag for you.

I was reffering to the teaching of christ, not his action per se. However if you want to get into that then that is a whole can of worms on it's own.
For example Horus was born of the virgin isis
or dionysus who was killed and raised after three days
Oh that also include attis, mithras and krishna as well.
I think that you will find Christianity has very little in the way of originality.

---

So was the reincarnation of a deity after three days. So was the idea of deities taking human form. The fact that Jesus is such an amalgam of recycled religious ideas is actually the starting point for those who think he's a complete fiction.

Even the Christian narrative points to it: Jesus was a kid, and did nothing special. He traveled (just for hoots?) to Asia Minor , and came back saying things that suprised the locals. It's almost like he was a backpacker studying foreign religions, and then incorporated them into a new fusion religion, isn't it?

Why doesn't the Bible say what he was doing during that time? Obvious answer: because then everyone would know where his religious ideas really came from.

BennyBoy, are you admitting that the gospels of Christ stem from a true person that actually existed?

Or are you making unfounded claims made popular in today's culture by prominent fiction?

Because admitting that Christ was a real person that actually existed is actually the first step to becoming a believer.

I'll admit myself freely here I think Jesus was a real person. And guess what it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not you still can't prove he is the son of god. Even if I did grant you the virgin birth and the miracles, you still couldn't prove it.

[GodsRevolt]

I was reffering to the teaching of christ, not his action per se. However if you want to get into that then that is a whole can of worms on it's own.
For example Horus was born of the virgin isis
or dionysus who was killed and raised after three days
Oh that also include attis, mithras and krishna as well.
I think that you will find Christianity has very little in the way of originality.
___________________________________
I'll admit myself freely here I think Jesus was a real person. And guess what it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not you still can't prove he is the son of god. Even if I did grant you the virgin birth and the miracles, you still couldn't prove it.

Christ is the only instance where God humbles Himself to walk amongst men, the lowest of men, being born homeless Himself.

And you believe Christ was real. He claimed to be God and changed the face of God as we know it. You must come to one of two conclusions - He is either what He said, the Son of God, or He is a lunatic unlike any other lunatic every seen before or after Him. No where in history have so many in power been so threatened by a single "crazy" out in the streets, no one single "crazy" man has ever had such an impact on history, such a lasting impression, that even today we are posting about Him on a site designed around denying His power and His Father's existence.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

I was reffering to the teaching of christ, not his action per se. However if you want to get into that then that is a whole can of worms on it's own.
For example Horus was born of the virgin isis
or dionysus who was killed and raised after three days
Oh that also include attis, mithras and krishna as well.
I think that you will find Christianity has very little in the way of originality.

Set killed osiris and chopped him into 14 pieces and scattered them. Isis managed to recover 13 of them, but had to rebuild his phallus out of gold(I think). Then she then did the nasty with the frankenstein god and conceived horus with the aid of thoth's magic. Not quite what I call a virgin birth.

The Mithras/Jesus comparison is deceptive, since were actually two different cults. One pre-dates Jesus by a few centuries and is I think persian in origin. The later mithraic cult post-dates Jesus. This latter cult is the one from which the comparisons are drawn. The two cults have become conflated over time.

I'm not so hot on the others but I believe Dionysus became deified after being killed, so I'll leave it up to individuals to decide if parallels can be drawn or not

Even the Christian narrative points to it: Jesus was a kid, and did nothing special. He traveled (just for hoots?) to Asia Minor , and came back saying things that suprised the locals. It's almost like he was a backpacker studying foreign religions, and then incorporated them into a new fusion religion, isn't it?

Why doesn't the Bible say what he was doing during that time? Obvious answer: because then everyone would know where his religious ideas really came from.

Ooh! I know that one! He was a child killing, snake exploding, tamer of dragons!

I shit you not

[Lemonvariable72]

I was reffering to the teaching of christ, not his action per se. However if you want to get into that then that is a whole can of worms on it's own.
For example Horus was born of the virgin isis
or dionysus who was killed and raised after three days
Oh that also include attis, mithras and krishna as well.
I think that you will find Christianity has very little in the way of originality.
___________________________________
I'll admit myself freely here I think Jesus was a real person. And guess what it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not you still can't prove he is the son of god. Even if I did grant you the virgin birth and the miracles, you still couldn't prove it.

Christ is the only instance where God humbles Himself to walk amongst men, the lowest of men, being born homeless Himself.

And you believe Christ was real. He claimed to be God and changed the face of God as we know it. You must come to one of two conclusions - He is either what He said, the Son of God, or He is a lunatic unlike any other lunatic every seen before or after Him. No where in history have so many in power been so threatened by a single "crazy" out in the streets, no one single "crazy" man has ever had such an impact on history, such a lasting impression, that even today we are posting about Him on a site designed around denying His power and His Father's existence.

Really because according to matthew jesus is born in a house

Chapter 2 9-12


9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

ANd who was threatened by the power of jesus? Did you know that not a single historian of the time records any mention of him at all, also no mention of a ecilpse at the time of death or of the dead walking the street, or a single writing from where he feeds the 5000. Nothing, not one first hand account of miracles, and not even contemporary account of his existence.

---

I was reffering to the teaching of christ, not his action per se. However if you want to get into that then that is a whole can of worms on it's own.
For example Horus was born of the virgin isis
or dionysus who was killed and raised after three days
Oh that also include attis, mithras and krishna as well.
I think that you will find Christianity has very little in the way of originality.

Set killed osiris and chopped him into 14 pieces and scattered them. Isis managed to recover 13 of them, but had to rebuild his phallus out of gold(I think). Then she then did the nasty with the frankenstein god and conceived horus with the aid of thoth's magic. Not quite what I call a virgin birth.

The Mithras/Jesus comparison is deceptive, since were actually two different cults. One pre-dates Jesus by a few centuries and is I think persian in origin. The later mithraic cult post-dates Jesus. This latter cult is the one from which the comparisons are drawn. The two cults have become conflated over time.

I'm not so hot on the others but I believe Dionysus became deified after being killed, so I'll leave it up to individuals to decide if parallels can be drawn or not

I was merely illustrating that the idea of resurrecting god is not new or original in christianity.
And btw Dionysus was considered the son of Zeus before he was ever killed and Mithras (the latter cult) was contemporary to Jesus.