Christian Apologetics and Arguments are Futile

[catfish]

Christ is the only instance where God humbles Himself to walk amongst men, the lowest of men, being born homeless Himself.

And you believe Christ was real. He claimed to be God and changed the face of God as we know it. You must come to one of two conclusions - He is either what He said, the Son of God, or He is a lunatic unlike any other lunatic every seen before or after Him. No where in history have so many in power been so threatened by a single "crazy" out in the streets, no one single "crazy" man has ever had such an impact on history, such a lasting impression, that even today we are posting about Him on a site designed around denying His power and His Father's existence.

I am Christian and I respectfully request that you quit misrepresenting Yeshua.

[GodsRevolt]

Really because according to matthew jesus is born in a house

Chapter 2 9-12


9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

ANd who was threatened by the power of jesus? Did you know that not a single historian of the time records any mention of him at all, also no mention of a ecilpse at the time of death or of the dead walking the street, or a single writing from where he feeds the 5000. Nothing, not one first hand account of miracles, and not even contemporary account of his existence.

I am confused. You say that you believe that Christ was a real person. Do you believe that he was crucified for the things that he said?

As for where Christ was born, I appreciate you quoting scripture. Of course my arguement was that He is the only God humbled Himself so much so that He did not make Himself a king. A odd thing for a God to do.

[Optimistic Mysanthrope]

I was merely illustrating that the idea of resurrecting god is not new or original in christianity.
And btw Dionysus was considered the son of Zeus before he was ever killed and Mithras (the latter cult) was contemporary to Jesus.
[/quote]
Fair enough. Like I said, I'm not so hot on Dionysus and the others. Though I'm fairly certain that Mithras appears in the latter part of the 1st century.

Either way, I'm spot on with angsty jesus

[Lemonvariable72]

Really because according to matthew jesus is born in a house
ANd who was threatened by the power of jesus? Did you know that not a single historian of the time records any mention of him at all, also no mention of a ecilpse at the time of death or of the dead walking the street, or a single writing from where he feeds the 5000. Nothing, not one first hand account of miracles, and not even contemporary account of his existence.

I am confused. You say that you believe that Christ was a real person. Do you believe that he was crucified for the things that he said?

As for where Christ was born, I appreciate you quoting scripture. Of course my arguement was that He is the only God humbled Himself so much so that He did not make Himself a king. A odd thing for a God to do.

No I do not believe Jesus was crucified. The roman had a million other jesus like figures running around in a period of few hundreds, and where comparatively tolerant.
apollonius and pergerinus both did the same thing as jesus as well by the way, And according to some traditions Dionysus was born a orphan.

[Esquilax]

And you believe Christ was real. He claimed to be God and changed the face of God as we know it. You must come to one of two conclusions - He is either what He said, the Son of God, or He is a lunatic unlike any other lunatic every seen before or after Him. No where in history have so many in power been so threatened by a single "crazy" out in the streets, no one single "crazy" man has ever had such an impact on history, such a lasting impression, that even today we are posting about Him on a site designed around denying His power and His Father's existence.

Whoa, whoa! Stop! Hey now!

Those are not the only two options, and your false dichotomy does not stand. Jesus could also have been a liar, a religious figure who had miracle claims and so on attributed to him by others, one puffed up by rumors, a composite character of several real life figures, an adaptation of earlier polytheism and so on... picking only two conclusions and saying that we must come to them just does not reflect the situation at hand.

[Ryantology]

The mythical figurehead invented by a rebellious jewish cult so as to legitimize their attempt to reinvent the god of that religion sounds like the likeliest bet, but it's irrelevant. Even if he actually existed, he was nothing but a fraud with spectacular PR.

[catfish]

The mythical figurehead invented by a rebellious jewish cult so as to legitimize their attempt to reinvent the god of that religion sounds like the likeliest bet, but it's irrelevant. Even if he actually existed, he was nothing but a fraud with spectacular PR.

Really? I figured it was a done by a controlling Roman government.
C'mon, think about it. "Render unto Ceaser"... "Submit to masters..."
Then the story of the crucifixion, they blame the Jews who then wish a curse upon themselves. Noone would do that if they thought they were correct. Obvious lie is obvious.

[Lemonvariable72]

The mythical figurehead invented by a rebellious jewish cult so as to legitimize their attempt to reinvent the god of that religion sounds like the likeliest bet, but it's irrelevant. Even if he actually existed, he was nothing but a fraud with spectacular PR.

Maybe, i personally toward the idea that other people built up shit for him, we've seen that even now
this guy is a perfect example of that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson

[GodsRevolt]

Whoa, whoa! Stop! Hey now!

Those are not the only two options, and your false dichotomy does not stand. Jesus could also have been a liar, a religious figure who had miracle claims and so on attributed to him by others, one puffed up by rumors, a composite character of several real life figures, an adaptation of earlier polytheism and so on... picking only two conclusions and saying that we must come to them just does not reflect the situation at hand.

You correct before you understand.

Lemonvariable72 said that:

I'll admit myself freely here I think Jesus was a real person.

and I believe that anyone that would stick to a bunch of outrageous claims (like being God) that would lead to His eventual death which He freely walked into without a fight is either a lunatic (what liar dies for his lies?) or He is what He said.

The comment came from the premise that He was a real person. If you don't agree with the premise to start then we can move no further.

Of course, Lemonvariable72 wiggled out of it by saying that there was no crucifixion, so . . . there you go.

[Minimalist]

Really? I figured it was a done by a controlling Roman government.

Meet God's Creator.

Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus