anyone else here not pro life for the sake of being pro life?

[Marvin]

Any person in their right mind can find life worth living

And if they can't?
What's a right mind?

Lifes a line, you can follow, find reasons to reinforce your decision, but if you're going to try to discredit those who have chosen not to, can you put a bit more effort into it?

[Walking Void]

When You say 'no' "will to fight", are You referring to people who do not choose life, or are You talking about people who are too confused to make that decision?

both

Well, I have multiple responses to that then.

Say they had no will to live, as they did not choose to live. I would request to know if they have the will to die. If they have the will, and the final decision to die without doubt, I would say they are clear about dying, and I would not stop them from doing that. This sometimes leads into euthanasia cases in the hospital for extensive care.

If the person was too confused or basically unclear about whether to live on or die off, I would request to know a few things. A: What is influencing the person to consider death and not life? B: Can A be solved? C: If B can be solved, solve it. If not, discuss options for coping with A.

I agree things can get better, but not always. Those cases where it does not get better might just be the case where our technology is not advanced enough to help them. Whether it be incurable diseases, or blindness, etc.

[Mystical]

that's what nursing homes are for, Fidel. And if you think your family would rather deal with your untimely death rather than be able to visit and love you despite your inability to recognize them: I can quite say that you're mistaken.

Marvinator:
I'll discredit all I want. You can't make me not. If only I had that special Point of View gun, you'd see why.

---

both

Well, I have multiple responses to that then.

Say they had no will to live, as they did not choose to live. I would request to know if they have the will to die. If they have the will, and the final decision to die without doubt, I would say they are clear about dying, and I would not stop them from doing that. This sometimes leads into euthanasia cases in the hospital for extensive care.

If the person was too confused or basically unclear about whether to live on or die off, I would request to know a few things. A: What is influencing the person to consider death and not life? B: Can A be solved? C: If B can be solved, solve it. If not, discuss options for coping with A.

I agree things can get better, but not always. Those cases where it does not get better might just be the case where our technology is not advanced enough to help them. Whether it be incurable diseases, or blindness, etc.

I have an incureable disease, you know. The treatment for it is a lifetime of low dose chemotherapy, endless doctors spots and labs, side effects and secondary complications. I've considered suicide. Especially when I was in pain that was unmanageable. Here's the thing: had I been able to euthanize myself I would have and I would be missing out on all my life which I find without a doubt, worth living now. I said earlier, for cases where life day to day is pure physical agony with NO hope of reprieve: I get it. I'd even help you administer it and hold you im my arms as you died.

Fidel why don't you do a search for it with key words?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Maybe a bit off topic but these topics get me thinking of a famous Alan Watts lecture:

that's what nursing homes are for, Fidel. And if you think your family would rather deal with your untimely death rather than be able to visit and love you despite your inability to recognize them: I can quite say that you're mistaken.

I disagree. I think, using hindsight, seeing me die as I am, not as a shell, would be preferable. That's what I'd want if my fiancé died, but of course, the decision is up to her in the end.

My death would not be untimely. It would be precisely the opposite; at a time of my choosing and my control.

[Minimalist]

Defending suicide is the ultimate admittance that life has no meaning,

Obviously you've never seen someone with stage 4 pancreatic cancer. Tell me, oh catholic genius, when that person decides to stop his treatments and enter hospice is he committing suicide? Or has he simply decided to stop trying to prolong the inevitable and let nature take its course?

[Anomalocaris]

Defending suicide is actually the ultimate admittance that life can credibly be given real meaning, because it permits a real person, best placed assess his life, evaluate his life is in relationships to all other relevent aspect of his experiencem without resorting to infantile hyperbole.

[Tonus]

So how do we feel about euthanasia?

I believe that suicide can be a selfish act, depending on the circumstances. A person seeking to die rather than deal with legitimate obligations to others would be choosing suicide for his own selfish ends. Killing yourself for selfish purposes isn't very bright IMO, but it is what it is.

I think that in cases where there is clinical depression, it's important to get the person professional help. Depression can change our emotional outlook to one that is very different from what we would feel normally, and a person who is feeling suicidal when they are depressed may feel very different once they are in a more normal state of mind.

A person who is in his or her right mind and has thought through the issue should be free to decide his or her own fate. A person suffering in the throes of a terminal disease, for example, should be allowed to end it if so desired. A person who is otherwise fully capable but feels that he is "a loser with no hope" should be free to take his own life as long as he is of sound mind and has thought his decision through.

[Minimalist]

I think that in cases where there is clinical depression, it's important to get the person professional help.

You're right...but the kicker is that people have to want help.

[Mystical]

Maybe a bit off topic but these topics get me thinking of a famous Alan Watts lecture:

that's what nursing homes are for, Fidel. And if you think your family would rather deal with your untimely death rather than be able to visit and love you despite your inability to recognize them: I can quite say that you're mistaken.

I disagree. I think, using hindsight, seeing me die as I am, not as a shell, would be preferable. That's what I'd want if my fiancé died, but of course, the decision is up to her in the end.

My death would not be untimely. It would be precisely the opposite; at a time of my choosing and my control.

So you're saying you'd rather die than let someone you love see you indisposed. And that your death would be timely because you chose the time and place (despite others feelings on the matter).

To me that's just selfishness. Why do you see it otherwise?

[Tonus]

I think that in cases where there is clinical depression, it's important to get the person professional help.

You're right...but the kicker is that people have to want help.

Yes, it is a situation where people will probably be going against the stated wishes of the depressed person in question. And someone may ask "how can you say that he is not in his right mind?" And I would admit that I would err on the side of caution in that case, if it was someone I cared about.