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Challenging the Atheist belief
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 (November 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm)Faith No More Wrote:(November 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: And your example of love isn't real love. Real love is unconditional, love as most people describe and understand it today is very much attached to an understanding of the mind. Such as I love them, but only if they function within the conditions I've named. If you are in a "loving" relationship and they cheat on you, that love can easily turn to hate, and so you can see it's not real love, as real love is unconditional. Is it possible to love someone unconditionally? I'd argue yes, and it is only the mind that tells you differently. It's ultimately a choice, which is the beauty of life, we choose how we live it. It's a feeling. You cannot prove a feeling, you can only point to it. It is the understanding that nothing external can bring you true joy, because it is conditional. If that external object doesn't fit your minds idea of what it should be, you suffer. If you are attached to the car, its lose brings you suffering. But if you do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened, then you can be in the state of unconditional love. Unconditional love is outside of the duality of the mind. The mind labels things good and bad, but with duality, you have the possibility of suffering, and with the promise of change in the world, your inner state, if you view things as good and bad, you will always be at the mercy of how your mind identifies a situation. The point is, you don't have to be, if you can detach from the duality of the mind.  RE: Challenging the Atheist belief
November 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm by Darkstar.)
(November 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: If that external object doesn't fit your minds idea of what it should be, you suffer. If you are attached to the car, its lose brings you suffering. But if you do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened, then you can be in the state of unconditional love. So when things aren't how we wish they were, we should just deny reality to make ourselves feel better...? Wha...I don't even... John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. RE: Challenging the Atheist belief
November 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2013 at 4:05 pm by Natedeezy.)
(November 26, 2013 at 3:56 pm)Darkstar Wrote:(November 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: If that external object doesn't fit your minds idea of what it should be, you suffer. If you are attached to the car, its lose brings you suffering. But if you do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened, then you can be in the state of unconditional love. What does that mean? Reality according to who? Can't you see you're internally fighting what is? You're defending your right to be miserable based on your external world. That's insanity. 
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator  Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope?
We define reality through independent verification. I can go and ask someone on the street what colour the sky is. The answer will almost always be the same: blue. I say almost always because some people are colour blind and some are fully blind. Also the sky turns red and pink when the sun sets and rises but you get the point. Independent verification
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech RE: Challenging the Atheist belief
November 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2013 at 4:10 pm by Darkstar.)
(November 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: What does that mean? You...I think. You said: Quote:If that external object doesn't fit your minds idea of what it should be, you suffer. If you are attached to the car, its lose brings you suffering.So if you want reality to be: "car in my possession", and the car is stolen, you feel bad. Accurate enough. But then you said: Quote:But if you do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened, then you can be in the state of unconditional love.Perhaps I misunderstood you. Perhaps by "do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened" you did not mean "pretend it didn't happen" and instead meant "don't care that it happened". Which...isn't that much better. You can't arbitrarily change reality to fit what you want. Sure, you can tell yourself you don't really need the car, but when you have to walk twenty miles in the snow to work the next day, you may reconsider. (November 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: Can't you see you're internally fighting what is?Isn't that what you're doing? (November 26, 2013 at 4:03 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: You're defending your right to be miserable based on your external world. That's insanity.It is insane to not reject reality when you don't like it? Are you sure it isn't the reverse? John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.  (November 26, 2013 at 3:51 pm)Natedeezy Wrote: It's a feeling. You cannot prove a feeling, you can only point to it. It is the understanding that nothing external can bring you true joy, because it is conditional. If that external object doesn't fit your minds idea of what it should be, you suffer. If you are attached to the car, its lose brings you suffering. But if you do not identify with the mental labeling that something tragic just happened, then you can be in the state of unconditional love. Unconditional love is outside of the duality of the mind. The mind labels things good and bad, but with duality, you have the possibility of suffering, and with the promise of change in the world, your inner state, if you view things as good and bad, you will always be at the mercy of how your mind identifies a situation. The point is, you don't have to be, if you can detach from the duality of the mind. Yeah, so until you have something better than ramblings that could be ripped straight from an Oprah book of the month, we'll just agree that you've got nothing.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
 RE: Challenging the Atheist belief
November 26, 2013 at 4:13 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2013 at 4:28 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(November 26, 2013 at 3:36 pm)Natedeezy Wrote:(November 26, 2013 at 3:33 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Don't dictate to me what love is, you pernicious little toad. Can't you see that only an asshole would try to dictate what love is for another person?  (November 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm)NoraBrimstone Wrote:(November 26, 2013 at 3:29 pm)max-greece Wrote: Sexual pleasure from intelligence, huh!Whoever designed my vibrator is a bloody genius. Preach it. Mine connects to my iPod. Wanna know what AC/DC feels like? I reserve the right to enjoy feeling miserable - if by miserable you mean the untender mercies associated with the kiss of the lash. I'm not sure why you assume my ego keeps me miserable because I refuse the idea that there is only one kind of love, but to be fair, I don't care. Is that ego? My ego demands I don't make myself miserable lending credence to assholes like you who think they know the only way and who really only must preach it to others to make themselves believe it. Fuck off. ![[Image: Untitled2_zpswaosccbr.png]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn569%2Fthesummerqueen%2FUntitled2_zpswaosccbr.png)  (November 26, 2013 at 9:14 am)Kayenneh Wrote:(November 26, 2013 at 7:24 am)Ivy Wrote: They taste good, therefore, God. FOOD FOR THOUGHT: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58309...ed-recipes . ![[Image: tumblr_mliut3rXE01soz1kco1_500.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=31.media.tumblr.com%2F1ccb209a7f672ea6b62b8550a4c12eb4%2Ftumblr_mliut3rXE01soz1kco1_500.jpg) The trouble with the world is not that people know too little, but that they know so many things that ain't so. -- Mark Twain . |
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