Is the Fall a Good Thing

[Ryantology]

I see your point but what I am saying is that from my perspective a Computer Scientist (Developer) is that Computers give results as we expect them to give results. If we tell a computer 1 + 1 = 3 and then proceed to base calculations that means the (+ implies add 1 to the left sum) the computer would obviously say 1 + 2 = 4.

So how do we know that the computer is indeed accurate as all it is going by is the observable Universe as we know it right now. What it looks like is scientists these days look to shoe horn the answer into the computers output. E.g. work with the result to find the equation which is the wrong way.

I'm no mathematician, but the basic principles are pretty simple. If we understood mathematics so poorly that a mistake like that was possible now, then we'd have never developed anything like engineering in the first place. We know it works because it has never not worked, not ever since we first truly discovered the logic which mathematics represents. The problem you present seems to be one of notation rather than logic, anyway.

The thing is, nobody is insisting that we have the one, true right answer. What we have is the best answers available with our understanding and tools. What qualifies as the best is, and should be, subject to change with better understanding and more advanced tools. If you want to shake up things on the level you're suggesting, there's got to be a much better reason than "you can't categorically prove that these infinite other imaginable answers are wrong". The burden is on you to demonstrate that the foundations of mathematics, as we understand them, are flawed.

The answers we get are what repeated experimentation tells us. You should understand that perfectly well if you've ever debugged a program.

I mean, can I prove that I definitely won't drown in the process of walking to my mailbox? No, I can't. I'm still sure enough that it won't happen that it would be a waste of my time to climb into scuba gear in preparation for the journey.

[Godscreated]

Hey Folks,

Here is something rather interesting that some people may not pick up on.

We all know the story of the fall so I am going to get straight to the point, Here we have God who warned Adam that if he ate from the tree of Good and Evil he would surely Die.

Ok Wait
1) Why did God not say that he would also curse all Adams future offspring to automatic eternal torture? And also how is it Just to place the sins of the father onto the son?
2) If there was no death then how would Adam know if it was a good thing or a bad thing. Adam would needed to have understood what death entailed e.g. Torture and then he would have made an unbiased decision.

Ok so we drag on a bit here and we find that they ate the apple and God condemned the rest of mankind

1) How can God justify placing the sins of One man onto the rest of existence including the world.

Now heres one for the Christians

Given that the 'Fall' is a bad thing and that it allowed 'Sin' to enter the world. And given that 'Jesus' died to take 'Sin' away and allow us to dwell in 'Heaven' with 'God'.

Can it be that we are better off overall if we believe in Jesus - Thus rendering the fall actually a Good thing as it brings us 'Closer' to God than living on earth 'Apart' from him.

Based on this Logic the fall of man was predestined and thus there is no Freewill whatsoever so those who do not follow God were predestined to eternity rendering God evil?

Here's your mistake with the whole idea you presented, Paul addressed this when he said, should we continue to sin to continually grow the grace of God for the forgiveness of sin. Paul said by no means. Here's the verses Romans 6:1-7 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase?
2) May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3) Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so that we too might walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6) knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7) for he who has died is freed from sin.

You see Paul is saying several things here but, one of the biggest is repentance, the walking away from sin so that we may be more Christ like. The fall was never good, it cost God and man alike.

GC

[Mystical]

What ever happened to this discussion? I challenge Drich and/or Godschild to continue the conversation with Esquilax

[truthBtold]

Il challenge u to a ... aahh... huh? .. owell hi there!!

[ThePinsir]

Adam didn't have to eat. If he was immortal, what's the point of eating? In fact, I wonder if he even had a digestive system...

Lol. It's fun to pick on Adam.

[truthBtold]

Blame eve she started this big mess.

[Darkstar]

Same as the bible. You cannot make the conjecture that it is 'Myth' without providing reasons for that assertion.

Two stone age people incestuously populate the entire world in the course of about six thousand years? That is a patently ludicrous story to be taken at face value and I don't think it should require much argumentation to establish such.

I am under the impression that you are implying (intentionally or no) that there are (at least remotely) sane reasons to think that Genesis is historically accurate. Am I mistaken? And if I am, what is your argument?

[The Valkyrie]

The story has always amused me.

An all knowing, all powerful deity created the whole universe, including CURIOUS humans and then placed the forbidden knowledge in the same garden as the humans.

Then he tells them not to touch it?

And this is the being Christians throw their faith in.

The being is either incompetent or evil.

[Esquilax]

Adam didn't have to eat. If he was immortal, what's the point of eating? In fact, I wonder if he even had a digestive system...

Lol. It's fun to pick on Adam.

So, he's immortal, inhabiting a limited space that has no death, and has been charged to be fruitful? How does... how does that work? Once Adam's family has expanded to fit the available space, what happens next?

[Minimalist]

There are a few holes in the story, aren't there?