Heaven...

[The Reality Salesman01]

It is believed that if one does all the right things, prays to the right God, and believes all the right things, then one will be granted an afterlife of eternal bliss in the gates of heaven. A place with no pain, no regrets, no sorrow, and an eternity of servitude to whichever God ends up being the right one. My whole family is Christian, and we all love each other a great deal. It’s no secret that I don’t believe in God, and something occurred to me the other day while talking to my mom. If she believes she is following the correct criteria required for admittance into heaven, and she also recognizes that I am certainly NOT. Worse still, I have persuaded others to abandon their faith. If there’s a hell, there is certainly a special section reserved for the likes of me. Anyway, I realized that my mom’s belief that she’s going to heaven coinciding with her belief that I am most certainly not, implies that my mom believes I am going to be tortured for eternity, and she’s okay with that idea! Holy shit! That, or she’s never considered it, and perhaps is trying her best not to think about it. Me having a son of my own, I pondered this very scenario. Could anyone be truly and purely happy in paradise knowing that their loved ones, perhaps their children, are simultaneously being tortured at each waking moment they spend in this Utopia? I find this to be a flaw in the promises of heaven. While we are alive, we would take a bullet for our children without hesitation, and after we die, we are cool with a God that tortures our kids because they weren’t as gullible? This doesn’t add up. The only way around this is to expect God to erase your memories of your loved ones that didn’t make the cut, and replace them with a new mind that only thinks about what God programs it to. Of course, the entire concept of a loving, caring God begins to crumble at the thought of this, and it’s quite obviously an absurd thing to think is true, nevertheless, while my mom is alive, and believing, this is a very real implication of her belief. Kinda fucked up. I think I will bring this up, and see what she says. When we come to things like this, I normally get something like “I know you don’t believe honey, but I pray for you all the time. I know God will eventually find His way into your heart.” Maybe this little hope will have to satisfy her until she dies expecting God to change my mind for me. For her sake, It’s a good thing that dead people can’t get disappointed.

I also started thinking that if this had occurred to her, she should also hope that it’s her God that does the sentencing, otherwise, she’ll be joining me for our eternal fire-bath! At which point, I think I’d be the only one capable of seeing the humor in such cruel irony.

[ShaMan]

"Heaven" may only be a state of consciousness, eternal or temporal. If this is in fact the case, then I suspect that we can create any heavenly paradigm we choose. One where we 'allow' our loved-ones to share in the experience, or one in which our philosophy evicts them.

[The Reality Salesman01]

A state of consciousness? Unembodied, or...? And does the loved one get to form their own paradigm, or will they be at the mercy of those who conjure them into theirs?

[ShaMan]

A state of consciousness? Unembodied, or...?

Ahh, who can say? Don't you just love unfounded certainty?

And does the loved one get to form their own paradigm, or will they be at the mercy of those who conjure them into theirs?

perhaps both?

[The Reality Salesman01]

Lol...If both, one would certainly need to be artificial, and the conjurer must certainly know that. If not, who is decieving them? And...where is the authentic consciousness?

[ShaMan]

Lol...If both, one would certainly need to be artificial, and the conjurer must certainly know that. If not, who is decieving them? And...where is the authentic consciousness?

Indeed.

[Mystical]

Yep, this is something that grated on me constantly since I was in elementary school and my grandparents killed themselves. My mom told me the reason my dad was so upset was that they automatically go to hell for what they did. Ever after that, I couldn't stomach the idea that anyone goes to hell.

[truthBtold]

Nodody.. nobody knows if there is anything after this life. My suggestion is enjoy life to the max.. dont think about it to much...u dont want to look back and say.. could of ..should of..would of.. love ur family, and friends. We r told by people that have never been there... why would u believe them if they haven't been there.

[NoraBrimstone]

Oh - thinkin' about all our younger years
There was only you and me
We were young and wild and free

Now nothin' can take you away from me
We've been down that road before
But that's over now
You keep me comin' back for more

And baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

And love is all that I need
And I found it there in your heart
It isn't too hard to see
We're in heaven

Oh - once in your life you find someone
Who will turn your world around
Bring you up when you're feelin' down

Yeah - nothin' could change what you mean to me
Oh there's lots that I could say
But just hold me now
Cause our love will light the way

And baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

And love is all that I need
And I found it there in your heart
It isn't too hard to see
We're in heaven

I've been waitin' for so long
For somethin' to arrive
For love to come along

Now our dreams are comin' true
Through the good times and the bad
Yeah - I'll be standin' there by you

And baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

And love is all that I need
And I found it there in your heart
It isn't too hard to see
We're in heaven, heaven, oooh

You're all that I want
You're all that I need

We're in heaven
We're in heaven
We're in heaven

[xpastor]

... something occurred to me the other day while talking to my mom. If she believes she is following the correct criteria required for admittance into heaven, and she also recognizes that I am certainly NOT. Worse still, I have persuaded others to abandon their faith. If there’s a hell, there is certainly a special section reserved for the likes of me. Anyway, I realized that my mom’s belief that she’s going to heaven coinciding with her belief that I am most certainly not, implies that my mom believes I am going to be tortured for eternity, and she’s okay with that idea! Holy shit! That, or she’s never considered it, and perhaps is trying her best not to think about it. ...

Almost certainly the latter. When I was a devout Christian, I did not think much about hell. When the thought was forced upon me, I believed that the only inhabitants were really evil people like Hitler. (No Godwin's law back then! ) If I got theological, I solaced myself with Origen's heretical universalism, that Christ's sacrifice would ultimately redeem "the whole of creation."