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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 3:46 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2014 at 3:50 pm by WesOlsen.)
(January 23, 2014 at 1:11 pm)Drich Wrote: Because whether it is PC or not we are all slaves to one degree or another. So as slaves we need to know how to respond to slaves and be responsiable for those in whom we are responsiable for.
plus morality is not the standard you believe it to be:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-22249.html
To quote Stewart Lee, Political correctness is basically institutionalised politeness. If you think that opposing slavery is somehow 'politically correct' rather than 'totally fucking abhorrent' then you're a bigger knuckle dragger than I originally thought. Is not indulging in gang-rape political correctness gone mad? How about not ethnically cleansing a country, is that PC hippie bullshit? What about not setting fire to children, is that for lefty whimps only?
Seriously mate, slavery in the form that it is described in the bible (i.e absolute slavery that was very common at the time) is completely disgusting.
(January 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But we don't min! We ignore it, or rationalise it, or come up with a way it fits our own internal belief systems. Squirm implies a degree of discomfort. Drich may correct me here but I suspect he's suffered not one iota of doubt or difficulty. And people like me don't even believe the is inspired! Like feeding a hot chilli to someone to watch them suffer then discovering they don't mind mind hot chilli. All that's left is a feeling of "wow, I couldn't rationalise like that".
As someone who still wants to describe themselves as even just a little bit christian, you might be mistaken for not being completely human if you didn't even feel a tiny bit of 'discomfort' from knowing that your number one poster boy not only advocates the ownership of other humans and their exploitation, but even offers guidelines on how hard to beat the bastards. I do like you, you're a refreshing face around here in a sea of orthodox lunatics, but regardless of the OP's lazy trolling intentions, you've gotta admit that slavery is pretty awful shit, right?
(June 19, 2013 at 3:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Most Gays have a typical behavior of rejecting religions, because religions consider them as sinners (In Islam they deserve to be killed) (June 19, 2013 at 3:23 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: I think you are too idiot to know the meaning of idiot for example you have a law to prevent boys under 16 from driving do you think that all boys under 16 are careless and cannot drive properly
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:15 pm
(January 23, 2014 at 1:57 pm)là bạn điên Wrote: what an evasion drich. We are not slaves. The bible endorses slavery. Why doesn't the bible say that slavery is wrong?
Actually the bible says we are all slaves to one master or another. Jesus said we can't serve two masters we will love the one and hate the other... Paul Identifies us as slaves to sin. If you do not think yourself a slave to sin then simply stop. You can't because you are indeed a slave.
Maybe you should look up the word to better understand it. Slave does not mean a chained black man in a field picking cotton. It is a universal term. a slave is one who's will is subject to another person or even in this case a force. this defination encompasses your idea of a slave and every other idea of a slave as well. now keep that in mind.
So again your question why did God put rules in the bible governing slavery? 1 because we are all slaves to one degree or another. Couple this with the understanding that it is with the same measure we use against others it will be used against us. we will see or begin to understand that the rules to slavery in the OT aren't about what the master can get away with but about the perservation of the one in servitude. the limits (if followed) then become our upper limits of what we are made to endure.
Lets see if you get this before we go any further.
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:18 pm
Quote:
As someone who still wants to describe themselves as even just a little bit christian, you might be mistaken for not being completely human if you didn't even feel a tiny bit of 'discomfort' from knowing that your number one poster boy not only advocates the ownership of other humans and their exploitation, but even offers guidelines on how hard to beat the bastards. I do like you, you're a refreshing face around here in a sea of orthodox lunatics, but regardless of the OP's lazy trolling intentions, you've gotta admit that slavery is pretty awful shit, right?
1. Regarding the op's intentions I have no clue what they are. It's not trolling (or if it is he's suit at it). That's why I asked.
2. What is it to you whether I feel discomfort or not? You can mistake me for slightly Christian, slightly less than human, slightly grumpy or a slight necrophiliac. What I am and how I believe is none of your business until I try to ram my faith dick down your throat.
3.slavery pretty awful shit? Compared to what exactly. Genocide? Famine? Anarchy? Against what moral yardstick. A society which has lost its way as badly as ours?
We live in a world where we drone bomb civilians be the thousand and call it war. Where tens of thousands die of starvation while we die from over consumption. Where we spend £30 on a kids cuddly toy which would feed a family in the third world for a month. Where warlords carry out genocides which would warm the cockles of the OT Yahweh's heart, and we ignore it. Where teenagers commit suicide because people say unkind things to them. Yeah, slavery is not a nice idea but considering how fucked and immoral our society is I'm afraid I can't get that worked up about it. So no, I don't particularly have a problem with the Bible not matching up to modern morality because modern morality ain't that special. It just seems that way to us because we're so inordinately proud of the horror we've created. It's like a paedophile taking a morally high stance over wife beating. Neither are moral. Both are funked.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:21 pm
Ok I think I got what ur saying.. (not really)... so back then when people were allowed to beat slaves and as long as they dont die within a day or two it was ok by ur gods rules?? How could u think thats moral?? Ur god did make the rule??
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:25 pm
If your wanting to know my opinions on the traditional slavery arguement I've done one about every 6 months since I've been here. You can do a search or this one kinda sums it all up starting at post 35.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-22220-pa...ight=slave
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:26 pm
(January 23, 2014 at 5:25 pm)Drich Wrote: If your wanting to know my opinions on the traditional slavery arguement I've done one about every 6 months since I've been here. You can do a search or this one kinda sums it all up starting at post 35.
http://atheistforums.org/thread-22220-pa...ight=slave
Ok.. I wasnt here back then
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:28 pm
(January 23, 2014 at 2:47 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Oh for fuck sake. Sorry, I'm too pissed off to be polite this evening.
Are you going to go through EVERY bit of the bible you don't like and post a thread on the lines of "It says this so that's not very nice is it" with that smug, superior air? Because frankly its fucking dull.
You know what? The bible advocates eating meat as well. Cute fluffy little lambs which scream when they are slaughtered while their mothers wring their hoofs wondering where their little treasures have gone. That's apparently equally immoral. Bastard fucking bible. Bastard fucking carnivores. Moral vacuums the lot of us. We could look at that, only most people are not as enlightened as you are are they.
Know what, If you don't like the bible, don't follow it. If you don't like other people telling you you should, take it up with them. I'm with you all the way on that one. But what could possibly be the benefit of these whinily triumphant little "I've spotted something dodgy in an ancient scroll, look how fucking enlightened I am" threads. Christians don't care what you think and have probably heard the arguments, at least 8,000 times before. You ain't convincing anyone there with your one liner little offerings. Atheists already probably agree. So aside from the circlejerk satisfaction of stating something we all aready know with the air that you are imparting some great and secret truth, what in the name of lucifers cock ring is the point of threads like this. Does it make you feel good LBD? Morally accomplished perhaps? Does it give you a tribal sense of belonging that everyone can see you don't like slavery?
Seriously. I'm curious. I'm all ears. What is your payoff from this thread. What do you hope to get from it. What does a good outcome look like for you. 
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:33 pm
(January 23, 2014 at 2:47 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Seriously. I'm curious. I'm all ears. What is your payoff from this thread. What do you hope to get from it. What does a good outcome look like for you.
Actually, some Christians are open-minded enough that when they come across these arguments, they seriously consider their implications..and sometimes it leads them to leave the chain and ball of faith behind. I should know. I was one of them.
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:36 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2014 at 5:41 pm by Jacob(smooth).)
Quote:
Ok I think I got what ur saying.. (not really)... so back then when people were allowed to beat slaves and as long as they dont die within a day or two it was ok by ur gods rules?? How could u think thats moral?? Ur god did make the rule??
Firstly, learn to write. Secondly, read what I wrote instead of jumping in like a bell end to tell me what you mistakenly think I meant. Seriously, it makes this sort of conversation much smoother if it's a dialogue between two people instead of between you and the voices in your head. I know there were some long words and challenging concepts in there but at least TRY to grasp them.
I didn't say slavery was moral, I said it was no more immoral than many of the things we accept quite happily as moral today (or if not moral then at least acceptable). As such I find the somewhat petulant op profoundly unmoving because it's actually just deploring the immorality then in context of the different but equally unpleasant immorality we have today.
Edited to reduce level of f bombage
(January 23, 2014 at 5:33 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: (January 23, 2014 at 2:47 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Seriously. I'm curious. I'm all ears. What is your payoff from this thread. What do you hope to get from it. What does a good outcome look like for you.
Actually, some Christians are open-minded enough that when they come across these arguments, they seriously consider their implications..and sometimes it leads them to leave the chain and ball of faith behind. I should know. I was one of them.
How many of these threads do you reckon that needs?
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: How can a book that tells you how to treat slaves possibly be valid moral guide
January 23, 2014 at 5:50 pm
(January 23, 2014 at 3:21 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But we don't min! We ignore it, or rationalise it, or come up with a way it fits our own internal belief systems. Squirm implies a degree of discomfort. Drich may correct me here but I suspect he's suffered not one iota of doubt or difficulty. And people like me don't even believe the is inspired! Like feeding a hot chilli to someone to watch them suffer then discovering they don't mind mind hot chilli. All that's left is a feeling of "wow, I couldn't rationalise like that".
Once you see we are all slaves and do not lie to yourself about being free then you will see the rules of slavery as saving graces for all of us. That there are limits on what we as slaves are expected to endure, rather than being a free market slave or a slave working in a world without restrictions.
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