juts done

[Lek]

It's not a matter of who is or isn't moral, because I don't really have much interest in comparing our demographic dick sizes, in that regard. It's a matter of where morality comes from, and why you think that without a god you wouldn't feel the need to feel guilty at bad actions, or perform the same moral deeds.

Don't you feel good when you do good? Can't you see the benefits in such things? That's why I said I don't think you really believe what you said above, because you're not a sociopath and you've surely got to be smart enough to see the benefits of a moral life; I think what you did was make a contrived shot at atheism without really considering the full scope of the corollaries.

I guess we have a different view of mankind. You look at people as basically good and I see people as mostly evil. Yes, we often do have a desire to good things, but when we find we can benefit in some way from evil we will do it. That's why we have laws and police and wars and so on. I believe it takes the power of God to help overcome our own evil desires and needs and ultimately for salvation. Since we're in human bodies we can improve, but never reach 100% here in this world.

[Esquilax]

I guess we have a different view of mankind. You look at people as basically good and I see people as mostly evil. Yes, we often do have a desire to good things, but when we find we can benefit in some way from evil we will do it. That's why we have laws and police and wars and so on. I believe it takes the power of God to help overcome our own evil desires and needs and ultimately for salvation. Since we're in human bodies we can improve, but never reach 100% here in this world.

I don't see people as good or evil: I see actions that way, but people are rarely composed of such absolutes. That's why making broad, sweeping statements about what people will or won't do isn't very useful; for every war or crime you can produce, I can equally produce an act of charity or heroism. Hell, wars are overflowing with acts of valor.

And why worry about ever reaching 100%? Why not just attempt to improve for its own sake?

[Ryantology]

I guess we have a different view of mankind. You look at people as basically good and I see people as mostly evil. Yes, we often do have a desire to good things, but when we find we can benefit in some way from evil we will do it. That's why we have laws and police and wars and so on. I believe it takes the power of God to help overcome our own evil desires and needs and ultimately for salvation. Since we're in human bodies we can improve, but never reach 100% here in this world.

Your faith is thoroughly misanthropic. It is a faith which tries to tell us that a perfect and all-knowing god created us to have a certain nature and then decides that almost every expression of that nature is evil and should be suppressed. And this is our fault, for some reason.

The Christian notion of 'free will', and the idea that free will means that we're to blame for everything, is without a doubt the easiest part of the whole thing to expose as clearly fraudulent and illogical.

If we're evil, it's God's fault for making us capable of evil. We didn't create ourselves. We didn't design our bodies and we didn't program our own instincts. We have very little actual choice in anything we do and God certainly could have made it so that we were a lot more capable of resisting 'evil' urges. Generally, we're just not very good at it. How is that our fault? Don't even get me started on 'intelligent design'. There are so many critical flaws in the design of life that I can't make myself that any being with the capabilities necessary to make life would do such a remarkably terrible job at it.

That's why I say shit on your god and his salvation. If he had done the job right in the first place, we wouldn't need saving. It's artificial and so very stupid.

[Angrboda]

I guess we have a different view of mankind. You look at people as basically good and I see people as mostly evil. Yes, we often do have a desire to good things, but when we find we can benefit in some way from evil we will do it. That's why we have laws and police and wars and so on. I believe it takes the power of God to help overcome our own evil desires and needs and ultimately for salvation. Since we're in human bodies we can improve, but never reach 100% here in this world.

How's that "everything is evil" working out for you, 2,000 years after the fact?

Notice how little that shit means to real people.

How's that shit working out for you?