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Militant Atheism?
#11
RE: Militant Atheism?
(March 11, 2014 at 4:40 pm)Jovanian Teapot Wrote: Why, may i ask, do you ignore them? I feel compelled to be consistent in my efforts to drive people away from religion. I'm not going to allow people to get away with their ridiculous fallacious arguments. Do you have any reason for not pursuing the argument of religion?
Is it because you think it's pointless?
Apathy?
Nonchalance?

Maybe it's a combination of those things. Frankly I don't usually care enough for other people who I don't know to give a shit about what they believe and waste my time arguing with them. If it's someone I care about then ofcourse it's different. The only other times I take an interest are when their beliefs affect me in some way, or they ask for mine.

Have you ever argued with a religious person and converted them, right there on the spot? I highly doubt it. I've certainly never done so. I do for the most part find such arguments pointless, especially when you know the person opposite you isn't interested in hearing your argument. Then there's the whole issue of me communicating my arguments effectively enough to get the other person to truly understand it.

Yeah, I just don't have the time or motivation.

Quote:Why would you let people believe ridiculous things when you have a clearly contrasting opinion?

Because they have every right to believe such bullshit. You're an elitist if you think you should be out there forcing people to conform with your worldview. In fact I'll go one further. You're an asshole.

Quote:It seems very conceited for someone like me to hear an idea that i disagree with, and that i have strong arguments against, to say something to the tune of "oh, well i disagree with you, but i will allow you to continue believing your ridiculous crap". What is your reasoning behind disagreeing with a vast majority of humans and yet not continually voicing your arguments? I cannot allow such nonsense to be presented as fact. I am uncomfortable with people who have a pseudo-scientific worldview.
If you could elaborate on your position and your reasoning, that would be most helpful

Oh c'mon. It's not conceited to not want to engage someone in an argument. If I took this attitude with every single topic I disagree with do you think I'd be a productive member of society? I think vegans have poor diets. I don't go around picking fights with them. I think people who like adventure time are fucking retards. I don't bash on every facebook post saying adventure time is great. There's a time and place for getting involved in such arguments. My everyday life isn't really one of them.
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#12
RE: Militant Atheism?
I go "hardcore atheist" on facebook once a week. It's pretty cool and provokes interesting discussions. I haven't got any death threats yet, so I guess I'm doing it right (or maybe not lol).

Besides that and posting here, I don't bring it up unless someone asks or someone says something so profoundly stupid that I can't help but butt in.

As far as the "ethics of de-converting people"...I've started a thread about it. Hold on a sec and I'll post it.
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Ah, here it is:

http://atheistforums.org/thread-24308.html
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#13
RE: Militant Atheism?
It's the hypocrisy that keeps me from being a vocal, militant atheist. To actively proselytize, to feel like it is my role to 'bring people to the truth'---that's what theists do, and that is what drives me the most insane about them. It's not my business what you believe, unless you make it my business.

Where I become vocal and active is when they try to take rights away from me or anyone else, or if they try to murder the constitution, as is there wont. Then I absolutely will say something, be vocal.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#14
RE: Militant Atheism?
I'm an asshole for telling people that they shouldn't indoctrinate their children? For bringing up the atrocities that only religious people commit? I completely agree that people have a right to think for themselves. However, let's not go the route of "respect my beliefs, yo." (As is the usual argument I get). Sincerely, fuck that. I'm not going to pussyfoot around a controversial topic because I'm afraid to hurt someone's feelings. Before I go further, I'm going to move to the other thread, as it seems more appropriate.
Just don't call me an asshole because the mental well-being of other people
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are"-Mewtwo
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”- Voltaire
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus
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#15
RE: Militant Atheism?
Nobody's calling you an asshole. Unless you truly are being one.

And you are being an asshole if you are going up to random people and telling them they're raising their children wrong. If you have a medium, then fine---preach your word. If we're talking a newsletter, a blog, or a rally or something, fine. But if you are accosting people uninvited, then, yeah, that makes you an asshole. That makes you the same as the JW that knocks on your door.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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#16
RE: Militant Atheism?
Fair enough. I should have been clear that I don't proselytize. I bring it up, on occasion.
Posting on the other thread as it seems more appropriate
"I see now that the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant; It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are"-Mewtwo
“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.” - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”- Voltaire
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus
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#17
RE: Militant Atheism?
(March 11, 2014 at 5:53 pm)Jovanian Teapot Wrote: I'm an asshole for telling people that they shouldn't indoctrinate their children? For bringing up the atrocities that only religious people commit? I completely agree that people have a right to think for themselves. However, let's not go the route of "respect my beliefs, yo." (As is the usual argument I get). Sincerely, fuck that. I'm not going to pussyfoot around a controversial topic because I'm afraid to hurt someone's feelings. Before I go further, I'm going to move to the other thread, as it seems more appropriate.
Just don't call me an asshole because the mental well-being of other people

Oh give me a break. I never once said anything about respecting people's beliefs. FYI I'd be one of the first people here to give the middle finger to someone with a whacked out view of reality. You must have misunderstood everything in my previous post if you think it has anything to do with respect. For the record, if you make it your intention to go out and deliberately start arguments with people for the sake of arguing, yeah. You're an asshole. Hell the OP is called militant atheism. You think that's a good thing? Something to label yourself with and take pride in?

There's a time and a place for being aggressive with your own views. Going to the shops and getting your groceries isn't one of them. Visiting your parents and having a meal with them isn't one of them. Jehovah's witnesses knocking on your door? I guess that's as good a time as any to drill home some facts into their brains, but I never once said you should be apathetic to the problems religion causes so don't give me that bollocks about "I'm an asshole for telling people that they shouldn't indoctrinate their children? For bringing up the atrocities that only religious people commit?" Ofcourse you're not. But there's a time and a place.
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#18
RE: Militant Atheism?
It is possible that you all agree, and you just don't know it Big Grin
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#19
RE: Militant Atheism?
(March 11, 2014 at 4:19 pm)Jovanian Teapot Wrote: At university, i tend to take every chance i get to debunk and vilify religion. Many people have described me as militantly atheist. I kinda like it. However, i'm not sure that my course of action is the most effective, so...
I invite you all to tell me what you think of my behavior.
Should we, as atheists, go about our lives as quiet skeptics,
or should we arm ourselves with heavy artillery and pursue a war of ideas?
If you'd be so kind, give me some examples of the things you all do in your daily lives in support of either side.
I would say, be yourself. If you are comfortable being aggressive about debunking religion then go ahead and do that. As Alex K said, it takes all kinds. I am only a bit more reserved about my atheism than I was about my theism (couldn't help that, being a JW meant being annoying at least a few hours a month).

Don't try to fit into some "atheist mold." To me the best thing about being an atheist is that I don't have to conform to the desires of some group. I just get to be myself.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#20
RE: Militant Atheism?
I tend to just ignore religion unless its something ridiculous like anti-evolution or anti-medicine. That being said, when a priest offered me a pamphlet for his church as I walked by I said: 'Didn't you get enough converts in the crusades?' And I just walked off. I felt sorry for him later.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain

'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House

“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom

"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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