Ever Feel Guilty?

[ThePinsir]

I've discussed religion (or lack of) with plenty of people IRL. A lot of people, after talking to me, say something like "I'm starting to question things now" or "I've never thought of it like that!", etc.

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I feel like a lot of the people I talk to aren't well prepared and don't really know how to debate, so I also feel kind of condescending when I try to explain my atheism. Not ALL the time, but with my mom for example. She's always been religious, and in the month since I "came out", she told me she doesn't know what to believe anymore. I'm happy...but kind of sad that she's sad. Or something.

Do you guys ever have any reservations when you effectively "un-indoctrinate" someone?

[Mr. Moncrieff]

I've discussed religion (or lack of) with plenty of people IRL. A lot of people, after talking to me, say something like "I'm starting to question things now" or "I've never thought of it like that!", etc.

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I feel like a lot of the people I talk to aren't well prepared and don't really know how to debate, so I also feel kind of condescending when I try to explain my atheism. Not ALL the time, but with my mom for example. She's always been religious, and in the month since I "came out", she told me she doesn't know what to believe anymore. I'm happy...but kind of sad that she's sad. Or something.

Do you guys ever have any reservations when you effectively "un-indoctrinate" someone?

Not anymore...

[Napoléon]

I think I know what you mean. In a way, you want to show them the brilliance of the actual universe they are living in, rather than the fantasy they delude themselves into believing. Problem is, (like you said) many people aren't prepared for it, and when they do start trying to think rationally about what they believe they can tend to feel a lot of despair and negativity. I guess if you start questioning someone else's beliefs in person, that in and of itself is quite a negative kind of conversation to have.

Personally I don't have these conversations with people all that often, but I do occasionally challenge people when I feel it's appropriate, but I'm not all that good at debating myself. My parents try to dodge the subject as much as possible. It's almost like they get deeply offended whenever I make a point about religion, or believing in general. Like I'm in some way insulting their intelligence. It's hard to explain to people, I'm not insulting their intelligence, I'm trying to get them to actually use their intelligence and think about what it is they have accepted as true for the entirety of their lives.

[FreeTony]

No. Humanity would make no progress unless we question what we think we already know.

If you have a good reason to believe something then it will withstand scrutiny.

[Nine]

I remember feeling guilty a couple of times. I wasn't deconverting anyone but when I was doing religious studies we had a bunch of trips. We'd always end up talking to an imam, priest, rabbi or whoever. Usually I'd just ask them questions in kind of a funny way but all in good spirit. We had one vicar who came across as a bit cocky and I asked some less friendly questions than usual, caught him off guard and he ended up getting flustered in front of his people (no idea who his posse were) and our class. I felt a bit like a bully and guilty about that one.

I remember having a similar situation where I stopped asking questions because I suddenly felt guilty while talking to some priest. I just suddenly realized the guy had spent his entire life in pursuit of becoming a priest and I just felt bad about saying anything that would make him feel bad.

[Jacob(smooth)]

I took my kids to a military history museum last week. It had a recreated ww1 trench. Amazing experience, really well done. It was a great way to teach them, and they were fascinated, but it was also very sad. There are things they have to learn, but once that innocence is gone, it can never be brought back and felt horribly guilty for showing them something of how vile the world can be.

So I can imagine the feeling.

[FreeTony]

I remember feeling guilty a couple of times. I wasn't deconverting anyone but when I was doing religious studies we had a bunch of trips. We'd always end up talking to an imam, priest, rabbi or whoever. Usually I'd just ask them questions in kind of a funny way but all in good spirit. We had one vicar who came across as a bit cocky and I asked some less friendly questions than usual, caught him off guard and he ended up getting flustered in front of his people (no idea who his posse were) and our class. I felt a bit like a bully and guilty about that one.

I remember having a similar situation where I stopped asking questions because I suddenly felt guilty while talking to some priest. I just suddenly realized the guy had spent his entire life in pursuit of becoming a priest and I just felt bad about saying anything that would make him feel bad.

We live in a society where it is fine to question and debate political views, but if it is a belief you have to just shut up and accept it. Naturally I do just that as it is seen as socially unacceptable, but I wish it were not the case.

A priest takes peoples money in return for a service he provides. You shouldn't feel guilty asking questions, just as if a salesman is selling you something you should question them to see if what they are saying is true.

[Nine]

Personally I don't have these conversations with people all that often, but I do occasionally challenge people when I feel it's appropriate, but I'm not all that good at debating myself.

That's pretty much how I do things. If somebody says something fucked up then I'll hop into the conversation. Usually I try talk them through trying to understand it from a few different perspectives. Then they hopefully start to think about the thing in more depth.

I don't even contribute my own views on the subject most of the time. It just makes people less likely to actually look at their own views in my experience.

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We live in a society where it is fine to question and debate political views, but if it is a belief you have to just shut up and accept it. Naturally I do just that as it is seen as socially unacceptable, but I wish it were not the case.

A priest takes peoples money in return for a service he provides. You shouldn't feel guilty asking questions, just as if a salesman is selling you something you should question them to see if what they are saying is true.

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I should have mentioned this was back when I was between 14-17. I would still avoid hurting peoples feelings where I could. Its just a line I'm not often comfortable crossing without immediately feeling like a dick. That said if they were being confrontational I take that as a sign that I'm free to say what I want.

[Ryantology]

I don't actually try to "un-indoctrinate" people. I am perfectly content to live and let live, usually. I don't go looking for a fight.

People who come here to preach Jesus or Mohammed, on the other hand, are making the conscious decision to intrude where they are not welcome (not as proselytizers, anyway), and they deserve whatever they get. This goes especially for those who are too fucking stupid to take the hint and quit when their proselytizing is rebuffed.

We have theists here who insist on trying to cram their shit down our throats, in spite of it never working, and pretend that it's because they want to save us. We tell them that we don't want salvation. They don't care. They say they want to 'learn', yet all we ever get from them is condescension and lectures about why they are right and we are not.

They are not here to discuss or to save. They are here to sell their bullshit and they are not leaving until everybody buys.

[Clueless Morgan]

I don't actively TRY to "deconvert" people, but might be doing it anyway. My thing is I sometimes feel like I'm pulling people from their ignorant bliss. And I usually feel a little bad about it. Like...it's hard to describe. I'm glad they're finally thinking for themselves, but sad because I'm kind of forcing them to doubt what they've held to be true their whole lives. I went through it, and I know it can be rough.

I'm having this kind of feeling right now with my mormon penpal. There is one caveat that makes me feel a whole lot better about the situation and that is that she was the one that wanted to talk about religion so I don't feel all that bad about making her question her beliefs. That's actually a good thing, IMO.

The part that I feel bad about is that if I do end up causing her to question her beliefs to the point where she goes to her bishop or stake president or something asking questions and is seen as a dissenter, there is the possibility that she could be kicked out of her ward and loose her social and support structure - let alone whether our conversation ends up with her leaving the LDS church all together.

It's a strange situation to be caught in.