Pull up a chair

[fr0d0]

What the OP is after is your ownership of the commitment to beliefs in things you have no empirical evidence for esq. He has given examples.

Dishonesty is what you are doing in hiding from that question. I see no reason why you should be scared of it because it proves nothing.

[Zen Badger]

What the OP is after is your ownership of the commitment to beliefs in things you have no empirical evidence for esq. He has given examples.

Dishonesty is what you are doing in hiding from that question. I see no reason why you should be scared of it because it proves nothing.

Faith is belief in something for which you have no evidence whatsoever.

Science is merely the way we measure the universe.
Since the results of those measurements are internally consistent with themselves and other measurements, only a fool(or a creationist) would argue with them.

Ps, how's the Megane going?

[Alex K]

Faith is belief in something for which you have no evidence whatsoever.

But, you see, if you use evidence, you already have faith: in evidence! gotcha!

[jesus_wept]

Pull up a chair and have a seat. In this thread I invite atheists and agnostics to discuss the topic of faith.

What is faith?

We all know that faith is an important aspect of Christianity. But what about atheism? Does an atheist exercise faith?

If so, how?

In what way?

I maintain that many atheists do indeed exercise faith despite what they may say about it.

So let us begin the discussion.

I suppose this depends what definition you're using (equivocation fallacy?). The Oxford dictionary defines faith as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something" or "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof". If you're arguing for the first definition then I would agree I have faith because, for example, I have complete trust in my girlfriend but, if your definition is the second (it must be for the argument to make sense imo) then I have none.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...lish/faith

[Whateverist]

Why are we even having this discussion? Even if we grant this argument on every point, these guys are still equivocating by saying that all faith is equal. It's just demonstrably not; me having "faith" in things that have evidence doesn't suddenly make believing things on faith that have no evidence more rational.

We should any of us feel the need to rebut an argument that is, at its heart, dishonest?

I think the reason duplicitus should be engaging in this discussion is to make the case that his faith in God is akin to the faith we all have in some things. If that were his point, that his faith in God is like my faith in mankind or my faith in my artistic expression, I am happy to grant it. I'm sure it is very much like that for him.

Unfortunately he over reaches. It is nothing like our 'faith in science' or 'faith in logic'. Logic and science are alternatives to faith, not objects of faith. Apparently he would like us to believe that faith in his god is as respectable as our confidence in empirical testing. That of course is absurd. Apples and oranges.

[Alex K]

Unfortunately he over reaches. It is nothing like our 'faith in science' or 'faith in logic'. Logic and science are alternatives to faith, not objects of faith.

Very good point to bring up, because I believe the whole purpose of his game is to precisely make them objects of faith, rather than alternatives. It even works to a certain extent, if you bend the definition of faith perversely enough.

[pocaracas]

Have you guys noticed that, whenever we apply the word faith to something, it tends to be (if not always) about the future, about the continuation of what we have observed, measured, gathered evidence?
The future, that great unknown, unmeasurable, unevidenced "thing".

[Whateverist]

Good point.

[Alex K]

Have you guys noticed that, whenever we apply the word faith to something, it tends to be (if not always) about the future, about the continuation of what we have observed, measured, gathered evidence?
The future, that great unknown, unmeasurable, unevidenced "thing".

I don't quite understand your point, can you elaborate?

[Whateverist]

Well, can't speak for Pocadotus, but anything we might say we have faith in is continually confirmed -or not- as time passes. I think my wife loves me, then she confirms it. I think the barstool will hold me, then it does. I try to sketch something and it more or less comes out okay. The future confirms our faith.

God seems to resist testing.