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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 2:40 pm by tor.)
All humans are green.
xr34p3rx is a human.
xr34p3rx is green.
The logic here is valid but the information is wrong.
Not all humans are green.
Logic is just the correct way of operating with information.
But if information is wrong in the beginning you will get the wrong answer.
That's why scientists run experiments. You can create thousands of mathematical models and they can turn out wrong. If model doesn't align with the experiment you change the model.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:42 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm)tor Wrote: All humans are green.
xr34p3rx is a human.
xr34p3rx is green.
The logic here is valid but the information is wrong.
Not all humans are green.
Logic is just the correct way of operating with information.
But if information is wrong in the beginning you will get the wrong answer.
That's why scientists run experiments. You can create thousands of mathematical models and they can turn out wrong. If model doesn't align with the experiment you change the model.
i know what logic is bro 
xR34P3Rx
it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:48 pm
(This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 2:55 pm by Modler.)
(March 21, 2014 at 2:32 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote: well the way i see it now is that almost anything can be "proven" logically BUT that doesnt make it real. The problem of syllogisms is that even if the premises are true, even if both the information and the logic seems valid, the conclusion may still be false, because a syllogism is merely a logical algorithm that doesn't take linguistic inadequacies into account.
This was beautifully demonstrated by Lawrence Krauss in a debate between him and Bill Craig some time ago:
- All mammals exhibit homosexual behavior.
- William Lane Craig is a mammal.
- There William Lane Craig exhibits homosexual behavior.
Both premises are true in their own right, but the conclusion is false (at least as far as anyone knows).
Watch from 21:14.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82uGzgoajI
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm
Yeah but he didn't specify all mammalian species or all mammalian creatures.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:52 pm
(This post was last modified: March 21, 2014 at 2:53 pm by xr34p3rx.)
(March 21, 2014 at 2:48 pm)Modler Wrote: (March 21, 2014 at 2:32 pm)xr34p3rx Wrote: well the way i see it now is that almost anything can be "proven" logically BUT that doesnt make it real. The problem of syllogisms is that even if the premises are true, the conclusion may still be false, because a syllogism is merely a logical algorithm that doesn't take linguistic inadequacies into account.
This was beautifully demonstrated by Lawrence Krauss in a debate between him and Bill Craig some time ago:
- All mammals exhibit homosexual behavior.
- William Lane Craig is a mammal.
- There William Lane Craig exhibits homosexual behavior.
Both premises are true in their own right, but the conclusion is false (at least as far as anyone knows).
Watch from 21:14.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82uGzgoajI
i well understand that, as i told tor i know about logic, i guess at the moment i got confronted with that claim i was too tired or i was facepalming too much that i couldnt think anymore 
(March 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm)tor Wrote: Yeah but he didn't specify all mammalian species or all mammalian creatures.
its a generalization, so it in that case it didnt need to be specific
xR34P3Rx
it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:54 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 3:36 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: so i got confronted with this claim about proving gods existence with logic. When god refuses to show up, that's what you have to fall back on: reasons why he might be hiding from us, as opposed to simply not being there at all.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 2:56 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 2:54 pm)Tonus Wrote: (March 21, 2014 at 3:36 am)xr34p3rx Wrote: so i got confronted with this claim about proving gods existence with logic. When god refuses to show up, that's what you have to fall back on: reasons why he might be hiding from us, as opposed to simply not being there at all.
i do remember this person claiming that if god were to show himself i would die... but if hes omnipotent, im sure he can avoid that supposed claim
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it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm)tor Wrote: Yeah but he didn't specify all mammalian species or all mammalian creatures. Exactly! And that is just what makes syllogisms so unreliable. When you look at the two premises isolated from one another, they are absolutely true, but they are using two different understandings of the word "mammal", and the conclusion of a syllogism is completely blind to such linguistic inaccuracies.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 3:14 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Modler Wrote: (March 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm)tor Wrote: Yeah but he didn't specify all mammalian species or all mammalian creatures. Exactly! And that is just what makes syllogisms so unreliable. When you look at the two premises isolated from one another, they are absolutely true, but they are using two different understandings of the word "mammal", and the conclusion of a syllogism is completely blind to such linguistic inaccuracies.
oh i see 
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it isn't in our nature to think of a God, it is in our nature to seek answers and the concept of God is most influenced in this world.
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RE: Proving god with logic?
March 21, 2014 at 3:54 pm
(March 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Modler Wrote: (March 21, 2014 at 2:49 pm)tor Wrote: Yeah but he didn't specify all mammalian species or all mammalian creatures. Exactly! And that is just what makes syllogisms so unreliable. When you look at the two premises isolated from one another, they are absolutely true, but they are using two different understandings of the word "mammal", and the conclusion of a syllogism is completely blind to such linguistic inaccuracies. That is the dumbest thing I've heard yet! If you use a the same term for two values then you have broken the form of the syllogism.
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