Christian Paradox

[tackattack]

I was referencing the question to KichigaiNeko's view of religion creating evil. I feel good and evil are universal concepts. Everyone has a definition and their own values for right and wrong. I don't propose that they're not subjective, and while they're not tangible I wouldn't say they're not real either. The objective helps to better our subjective views though does it not? Don't we use science (objective) to prove and define reality (subjective). Maybe religion is an objective modifier of morals. It also probably happens to be the biggest scapegoats for bad behavior, when if analyzied proves they weren't true believers in all the proponents.

[Ace Otana]

If evil doesn't exist, does right and wrong exist?

Hey, how are ya?

Right and wrongs are only concepts. They are subjective.
Good and evil are man made concepts. Nothing more.
A little example of right and wrongs that differ from races and cultures:
Some will see that it is right to spank a child to decipline them while others would see it as wrong. Some see that it is right to use canes whilst others see it as wrong. Right and wrongs are subjective.
Now you up for some boozing or do you think thats wrong?

[fr0d0]

So assuming 'God' you logically compose fixed morals. Assuming 'not God' morality isn't fixed and isn't really morality is it ...If anyone gets to decide what's moral?

Lets get beer

[Ace Otana]

So assuming 'God' you logically compose fixed morals. Assuming 'not God' morality isn't fixed and isn't really morality is it ...If anyone gets to decide what's moral?

Lets get beer

There is morality, it's just subjective. Really there are no universal laws to abide by. We can do what the fuck we want but it's because we choose not to and to bring no harm to others, to aid others and to write up laws that protect not destroy that makes us logical, reasonable intelligent beings. It seems we can live socially without the need for absalute laws. Have you noticed how hot and lengthy debates can be when discussing ethics? It's because everyone seems to have their own opinion on the subject. Very subjective.

Now I must insist that we have sparkle wine darling. Then we can go paint the town red! I'll get the brushes!

[fr0d0]

No there are fine lines that need thrashing out... that doesn't equate to morality being wholly subjective - just that there are grey areas. On a large scale societies are different and would have to interpret the moral laws to fit... the moral laws remain constant tho'.

To be honest drinking doesn't thrill me at all. Painting on the other hand sounds fun. Can we maybe use paintball guns? Pleeeze?

[Ace Otana]

No there are fine lines that need thrashing out... that doesn't equate to morality being wholly subjective - just that there are grey areas. On a large scale societies are different and would have to interpret the moral laws to fit... the moral laws remain constant tho'.

To be honest drinking doesn't thrill me at all. Painting on the other hand sounds fun. Can we maybe use paintball guns? Pleeeze?

I agree. Obviously there needs to be a collective agreement for how to act morally based on treatment and fairness of each other. It seems we each have a common opinion based on the treatment of others. Some opinions may differ but thats normal. Like I agree on spanking children for diciplinary reasons while I disagree with caning. Also, read up on how morality was viewed in the dark ages. Torture was an ok thing back then. So was burning at the stake. Those lines that you and I would never cross, well people back then crossed over that line all the time. Morality is very much subjective.

Paintballs you say? Now that sounds like fun! Never tried it though.

[fr0d0]

I don't think torture or burning were ever morally acceptable. We still have execution don't we? Hidden corporate immorality too. Immorality going on doesn't equal moral fixtures changing so much I think.

Pull!

[Ace Otana]

I don't think torture or burning were ever morally acceptable. We still have execution don't we? Hidden corporate immorality too. Immorality going on doesn't equal moral fixtures changing so much I think.

Pull!

Morality wouldn't enter anyone's mind in the dark ages. God was always on their side anyway. Even if you killed children. History is filled with blood. Learned much about it from documentarys. Quite nasty.
The sense of ethics for which we have now was not present back then. Today we still have executions but at least it doesnt involve horrific pain with a lengthy death nor do we chop off the hands of the one who steals. Oh and we don't throw babies into castles to de-moralise the enemy army. See, we got nasty history.

Reload!

[fr0d0]

Rivers of blood in the crusades I understand. Back then Christianity was in effect outlawed. The heresy laws meant you had no choice to believe or not. Dark times indeed. Today in the west corporate capitalism is much the same except they have to keep it at a distance so you don't really associate it with them. Same end result. Hoorah!

These people are wearing Dawkins' masks! I can't miss!

[Ace Otana]

Rivers of blood in the crusades I understand. Back then Christianity was in effect outlawed. The heresy laws meant you had no choice to believe or not. Dark times indeed. Today in the west corporate capitalism is much the same except they have to keep it at a distance so you don't really associate it with them. Same end result. Hoorah!

These people are wearing Dawkins' masks! I can't miss!

Babies being used a catapult ammo lasted a long while sadly. Religion was strong in the dark ages as it's influence was felt everywhere. I know when the black death plague came about it caused many crazy religious nuts to result to human sacrifices in a pointless attempt to please god. Wiches and heretics I believe. Anyone with a differant faith, lack of or anyone that may seem differant from themselves. Where desperation + faith = senseless murder. Not forgetting the inquisition. Though funny enough they ended up killing many believers instead of non-believers.

Good! Save some for me! (Ace aims down sight)

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Gotta go bed old chap. Take out the last few houses for me...I'll hit the church on my way home.