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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 10, 2014 at 11:22 am
(April 10, 2014 at 11:15 am)truthBtold Wrote: You tube ...sye walks out when questioned. Thats funny. He sux, I cant wait for matt to tear him a new asshole
I just hope that, whatever else happens, Matt's willing to really press him on just how shitty and childish his method of argumentation is, and not let him get away with just tapdancing around the entire conversation.
And let's face it, we all know that's the first thing Sye's gonna try. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 10, 2014 at 11:22 am
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2014 at 11:23 am by Clueless Morgan.)
Sye is like one of those "World's Dumbest" shows: you know he's an idiot, you know he'll just piss you off, you it's a huge waste of time to listen to his crap, but anticipating the train wreck and laughing when it happens is just too good to ignore him.
Also, I found this a long time ago and quite enjoyed it. (The video isn't linked to the audio - no need to watch, just listen.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZYFrMF1L4E
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 10, 2014 at 11:46 am
(April 10, 2014 at 10:45 am)Heywood Wrote: How does God even know if He is God? If God is all powerful then He could create a lessor being and then trick that lessor being into believing it was god. God knows this and has to wonder...."Am I the true God or a lessor being tricked by the true God?". God can never really know if He is God or not and must base His belief that He is God on an assertion, axiom, or assumption....what ever you want to call it.
No man, no religion, and no god can ever be free from the need for assertions.
Isn't that basically what I was saying? :p
(April 10, 2014 at 11:13 am)tor Wrote: That's a nice assertion you got there.
He/she is right.
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 10, 2014 at 1:23 pm
(April 10, 2014 at 11:46 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: (April 10, 2014 at 10:45 am)Heywood Wrote: How does God even know if He is God? If God is all powerful then He could create a lessor being and then trick that lessor being into believing it was god. God knows this and has to wonder...."Am I the true God or a lessor being tricked by the true God?". God can never really know if He is God or not and must base His belief that He is God on an assertion, axiom, or assumption....what ever you want to call it.
No man, no religion, and no god can ever be free from the need for assertions.
Isn't that basically what I was saying? :p
(April 10, 2014 at 11:13 am)tor Wrote: That's a nice assertion you got there.
He/she is right.
My take is that you are both describing the same objection to Sye's argumentation. Same idea, different words.
May I offer a third, very similar take:
Sye's argument is:
1) You may be wrong. Such is a universal human condition. Admit it.
2) My position is different than yours because I am informed by an all knowing, all powerful deity who says I am right. The deity has imposed this knowledge forcefully on me and says he isn't lying so I must BE right.
My objection is, that though Sye may be forced to believe by this deity, there is no way for the deity to know that it is all knowing and therefore no way for Sye to know if he was forced by the deity accurately or not. The same objection can be repeated up through the chain of meta-gods. This corresponds to the recursion which, as MFM states (more formally and correctly than I will ever,) never terminates.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 11, 2014 at 12:01 am
(This post was last modified: April 11, 2014 at 12:06 am by Heywood.)
(April 10, 2014 at 11:46 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Isn't that basically what I was saying? :p
My post wasn't meant to disagree with you but rather to flesh out the point you made.
(April 10, 2014 at 1:23 pm)JuliaL Wrote: (April 10, 2014 at 11:46 am)MindForgedManacle Wrote: Isn't that basically what I was saying? :p
He/she is right.
My take is that you are both describing the same objection to Sye's argumentation. Same idea, different words.
May I offer a third, very similar take:
Sye's argument is:
1) You may be wrong. Such is a universal human condition. Admit it.
2) My position is different than yours because I am informed by an all knowing, all powerful deity who says I am right. The deity has imposed this knowledge forcefully on me and says he isn't lying so I must BE right.
My objection is, that though Sye may be forced to believe by this deity, there is no way for the deity to know that it is all knowing and therefore no way for Sye to know if he was forced by the deity accurately or not. The same objection can be repeated up through the chain of meta-gods. This corresponds to the recursion which, as MFM states (more formally and correctly than I will ever,) never terminates.
If Sye concludes human reasoning to be unreliable how can he depend on his belief in this deity to be reliable in the first place?
I listened to this debate for half an hour before I concluded it wasn't going anywhere meaningful. I think Sye was horrible but so was the atheist guy.
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 11, 2014 at 2:37 pm
We actually had this guy as a member over at the Connecticut Valley Atheists forum (iirc) for a while. He's never changed.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 13, 2014 at 11:28 pm
(April 11, 2014 at 12:01 am)Heywood Wrote: If Sye concludes human reasoning to be unreliable how can he depend on his belief in this deity to be reliable in the first place?
Sye's trick is to claim that his conclusion isn't reached by human reasoning. Supposedly his point isn't made by himself but by the all knowing, all powerful and never lies being. He is just the conduit.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 13, 2014 at 11:55 pm
(This post was last modified: April 13, 2014 at 11:55 pm by tor.)
(April 13, 2014 at 11:28 pm)JuliaL Wrote: (April 11, 2014 at 12:01 am)Heywood Wrote: If Sye concludes human reasoning to be unreliable how can he depend on his belief in this deity to be reliable in the first place?
Sye's trick is to claim that his conclusion isn't reached by human reasoning. Supposedly his point isn't made by himself but by the all knowing, all powerful and never lies being. He is just the conduit.
Hahaha. Oh this makes me laugh. But he still has task to figure out what god is saying. Cause different people claim god says different things.
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 14, 2014 at 1:12 am
His argument in a nutshell:
"Ha ha, you admit you don't know everything and therefore Jesus"
As far as I can tell, the goal is to pack as much stupid into a short argument so the density will be so great that is will collapse in on itself, becoming a black hole of idiocy and will suck in and devour all rational arguments within its event horizon.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Sye Ten debate tactics
April 14, 2014 at 1:13 am
(This post was last modified: April 14, 2014 at 1:14 am by tor.)
(April 14, 2014 at 1:12 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: His argument in a nutshell:
"Ha ha, you admit you don't know everything and therefore Jesus"
As far as I can tell, the goal is to pack as much stupid into a short argument so the density will be so great that is will collapse in on itself, becoming a black hole of idiocy and will suck in and devour all rational arguments within its event horizon.
You know some theists do these kind of things. I said to a guy that god doesn't exist and he went "Then who created Adam and Eve and flood?" I said they didn't exist either and he went "Your theory rejects too many premises which points to it's invalidity".
I was silent for a moment there.
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