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(January 19, 2010 at 8:59 am)Pippy Wrote: Play games or watch TV for an hour. Is your breathing rate decreased?
No.
Quote:Are your eyes heavy, and you blink a lot less often?
No.
Quote:Are you kind of dreamy, having trouble holding thoughts?
No.
Quote:Are these all sign that the electrical rhythm in your brain is being pushed closer to the sleep side of the scale? If you don't think you're being hypnotized, than I don't know where else to start.
I don't think I'm being hypnotized, mainly because I'm not. I've been hypnotized before, I know what it feels like (it was medical hypnosis, not carnival hypnosis before you make some remark). Playing video games, watching tv, etc is nothing like it.
Quote:This is kindergarten stuff here. TV is bad for you. You don't think so, that's your own problem.
We tell children TV rots their brains for the same reason we tell them that Santa Claus brings gifts to good children. Children shouldn't watch too much TV, but rather focus on developing other skills in different areas. It's a control mechanism, which is why parents allow you to watch more and more TV as you grow up, and eventually let you control the amount you watch yourself.
Quote:You do bring up a good, but misplaced point about time on the computer. I spend time here, I have other forums, I check the underground news every day. I write Emails to family. I try to limit my time on the box though, because I am able to comprehend what it is doing to my mind. But that it makes me some kind of hypocrite is fallacious to the core. I say 'TV is bad for you, it rots your brain', and you take it all personal and come back with "Yeah, but you use a computer... so... there!" That has absolutely nothing to do with the point I am making. I know the computer rots my brain too.
It isn't fallacious to call you a hypocrite. In fact, if you admit that you know the computer rots your brain, it makes you even more of a hypocrite. You have gone on and on about how you don't watch TV because it flickers at such a rate as to "hypnotise" you, you've said the same about video games. You've told us we shouldn't be doing it because it is bad. However, if you can make this argument about watching TV, you can make the same argument about using a computer. In the last 9 months, over 4 days of them (that's 1.5% by the way) has been spent on these forums alone. 4 days is a rough estimate of your time spent on the site; it is probably less than this if you take idle time into account, but the fact still remains that an awful lot of time is spent sat at your computer.
So the hypocritical thing about you is that you don't practice what you preach. Instead of TV and computer games, you spent your time online in forums, still staring at a screen that flickers at 50 or 60 Hz. Your argument is that TV rots your brain, so it is unhealthy, so you shouldn't use it. It follows that anything else that rots your brain, is unhealthy, and therefore you shouldn't use it either. So either you admit you are hypocritical on your position of using computers but not TVs, or you can tell me why computer screens are held above TV in some special escape clause.
Speaking about this has reminded me of a question I got in a Critical Thinking exam a few years back. We were to evaluate a situation where a campaigner against TV was being interviewed, saying how TV rots your brains and how it should be banned. The same campaigner admitted in the interview that he does go to the movies more than the average person. The question was to find the flaw in his argument, and the answer was that he was being hypocritical. All he has done is replace TV with a bigger, brighter screen. I pointed out that in the terms the campaigner was talking about, a movie screen isn't any different to a TV screen. I got full marks too.
The only thing I will agree with that is dangerous is me getting that bloody awful "danger zone" song in my head from the game I'm playing. I'm fucking humming it for weeks now.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
But I don't say that the computer screen gets some kind of special clause. Computer screens are almost as bad for you as TV screens (they have a slightly different flicker and refresh rate). If I tried to make the point that computers are fine, and TV and video games are bad for you, then I would be a hypocrite. But, if you look carefully, I never made that point. I skipped computer screens because it was already a large scale argument, and I want to stick close to my strongest points. I know that all the things I have against TV's stand against computers. May be we have more control over what we do in our modified mind-state on a computer, but it is the same in lack of health.
Am I a hypocrite because I am here right now? No. Do I have trouble "practicing what I preach"? Absolutley, it has been a pinnacle of my life. But is that a flaw? If I can't do something perfectly, does that have a bearing on it's right or wrong-ness? Should I aim for ideologues, for an objective right action? I think the 'practice what you preach' issue is about human growth. I know more than I have put into action as of yet, just room to grow. It has to do with positive change, with attempting to think of solutions creatively...
If asked I would quickly point out that the same hypnosis and sitting still for hours issues stand on computers, they also have their own issues about flow and speed of information. I reserve that you only call me a hypocrite when I am one.
If you seriously never thought the TV was hypnotizing you, and you're not just being contrary, I am flabbergasted. I have brought this up untold thousands of times, and although you're not the first to question this concept, no one has ever flat out denied it. Congratulations. If you are literally as alert in the woods than in front of the TV, I bow to your superior ability to function. The rest of us, myself included very much feel the mental and physiological effects of the boob tube.
Seriously, slowed brain wave function. Unquestionable... But you're allowed to think what you will, it just amazes me.
And the hypnosis is supposed to be a presumption we all agree on, and then we can get to the dissemination of information to individuals whilst they are hypnotized. We can move on to the triggering of the 'fight or flight' characteristic in these 3 second clip music videos. Constantly changing scene, and it's effects. The fact that it hypnotizes you is the beginning of the argument, but I always get stuck on the very first presumption of my point because of the rabidly contrary crowd on this forum.
Thanks, I appreciate that you took the time to look up my log time. It shows that you care about my quality of life
Quote:We find strong evidence against the prevailing wisdom that childhood television viewing causes
harm to cognitive or educational development. Our preferred point estimate indicates that an
additional year of preschool television exposure raises average test scores by about .02 standard
deviations.
In another thread I posted my research paper on the positive effects of video games. I would be happy to re-post it here for you to review. In the paper one of the benefits mentioned is a large increase in speed and accuracy of doctors when performing remote laproscopic surgery. So, apparently there are real-life benefits from playing video games.
(January 19, 2010 at 11:08 am)Pippy Wrote: But I don't say that the computer screen gets some kind of special clause. Computer screens are almost as bad for you as TV screens (they have a slightly different flicker and refresh rate). If I tried to make the point that computers are fine, and TV and video games are bad for you, then I would be a hypocrite. But, if you look carefully, I never made that point. I skipped computer screens because it was already a large scale argument, and I want to stick close to my strongest points. I know that all the things I have against TV's stand against computers. May be we have more control over what we do in our modified mind-state on a computer, but it is the same in lack of health.
There are two ways you could be a hypocrite. The first is the way you just stated (saying that computers are fine, but TV and video games are bad for you). I am well aware you never made this point.
The second way you could be a hypocrite (and I hold that you are) is by telling us that TV and Video Games are unhealthy, and this is why you do not use them, and yet fail to explain how you can justify using a computer, given that it operates in the same way, and does the same "damage". As I explained, it's like my exam question, where someone argues against TV and is then revealed to be watching movies excessively at a cinema. You argue against TV and don't use it, yet you argue against computers for the same reason, and you are fine with using them. Your only excuse is "maybe we have more control". I'd like to see you back up that assertion.
Quote:Am I a hypocrite because I am here right now? No. Do I have trouble "practicing what I preach"? Absolutley, it has been a pinnacle of my life. But is that a flaw? If I can't do something perfectly, does that have a bearing on it's right or wrong-ness? Should I aim for ideologues, for an objective right action? I think the 'practice what you preach' issue is about human growth. I know more than I have put into action as of yet, just room to grow. It has to do with positive change, with attempting to think of solutions creatively...
Yes, technically having trouble practicing what you preach is a character flaw, since it means you are a hypocrite. It's not that you can't do something perfectly, I'm not asking you for that. What makes you a hypocrite is you arguing against TV and Video Gaming yet staring at a similar monitor in order to do so! It's honestly like watching a 2 hour documentary on why watching TV excessively is bad, or a video game where you go around solving puzzles in order to protect the world from video games...
Quote:If asked I would quickly point out that the same hypnosis and sitting still for hours issues stand on computers, they also have their own issues about flow and speed of information. I reserve that you only call me a hypocrite when I am one.
I've explained how you are one. Using a computer whilst saying it hypnotises you and is unhealthy is hypocritical when you've used exactly the same reasons to shun TV and Video Games.
Quote:If you seriously never thought the TV was hypnotizing you, and you're not just being contrary, I am flabbergasted. I have brought this up untold thousands of times, and although you're not the first to question this concept, no one has ever flat out denied it. Congratulations. If you are literally as alert in the woods than in front of the TV, I bow to your superior ability to function. The rest of us, myself included very much feel the mental and physiological effects of the boob tube.
I never denied being as alert as in the woods. The two are very different scenarios though. With TV you are focussed on one thing; in the woods you are surrounded and are paying attention to a much wider scope. The same could be said of going to the theatre, or looking through a telescope. Just because you are focussed on something doesn't mean you are hypnotised.
Quote:Seriously, slowed brain wave function. Unquestionable... But you're allowed to think what you will, it just amazes me.
Unquestionable indeed. I just doubt it has as much effect on me as you think it ought to. I've never zoned out when watching TV (my mother on the other hand, regularly does).
Certain games have the ability to put me into a trance. Seeing how most hypnosis is brought on through intense deliberate focus, I can see how. The same thing happens when I drive to work(~40mins). Only simplistic puzzle games seem to have that effect on me, though. I used to play Tetris for hours on end in the afternoon after class. Literally doing nothing but playing Tetris for 4-5 hours at a time. I don't get anything even remotely comparable from playing popular games like MW2, Starcraft, or Halo. Those games require a lot of thinking, and it's hard to slip into a 'trance' in unpredictable games like those.
When I used to get into Tetris trances I wouldn't call it lost hours. If anything it was intense introspective thinking time that I can't really compare to anything else. Almost meditation.
Quote:They use the same section of the brain, the same skills are developed, etc, etc.
I would have to point out that even if you are right, you are mincing. Let's say you sat in your chair all day learning form your TV, computer and video games. Sure it might lead you to make or keep a few synaptical connections. But does it lead you to make as much as or more than if you were learning in a more active and reality based way?
If what you do in front of the tube is slip into a trance state (which none of you seem to even notice, creepy) and sit still for hours, then there is no way you can compare that to a learning paradigm that included physical motion and cognitive awareness (ergo no trance). So the argument that games help you learn is fallacious, because they break down your ability to learn, to hold and process information while they are 'teaching; you. And that is apparent in the hyperactivity, that is a sign of decreased, or at least changing brain function.
Quote:Games develop our ability to work out things, to strategise, and to think both logically and laterally.
What would be a better way to learn to strategise, and thing logically and laterally? Oh, to have a learning system not based on hypnosis. It pains me that no one here comprehends the state of mind they are in when watching TV or playing video games. You really feel as spry as when you are out and about? Play games or watch TV for an hour. Is your breathing rate decreased? Are your eyes heavy, and you blink a lot less often? Are you kind of dreamy, having trouble holding thoughts? Are these all sign that the electrical rhythm in your brain is being pushed closer to the sleep side of the scale? If you don't think you're being hypnotized, than I don't know where else to start.
Quote:You don't watch tv or play computer games, and you think you are the expert on such things?
Same as the sex argument. Why do I hate video games and TV? Because I went through it. I watched hours and hours a day of TV. I played days and days of Starcraft. I still catch a little here and there, if only to try to be up and up on the world the others around me live in. My expertise is in the fact the I lived these things, thought them through and realized them for what they are.
Quote:I've played video games for years, watched tv for longer, and I can't report any such "hypnotism" you speak of. I'm focussed on something more than I possibly would be than other tasks, but only because my brain is being stimulated with so much information.
I would urge you to look into hypnotism, brain wave function, and the effect of TV and computer screens on the mind. If you don't notice when something is sapping your life energy, you must not be paying enough attention. If it feels like "more focused" to you, and it because your brains is so over-stimulated, then I would suggest you re-think what those statements mean.
This is kindergarten stuff here. TV is bad for you. You don't think so, that's your own problem.
You do bring up a good, but misplaced point about time on the computer. I spend time here, I have other forums, I check the underground news every day. I write Emails to family. I try to limit my time on the box though, because I am able to comprehend what it is doing to my mind. But that it makes me some kind of hypocrite is fallacious to the core. I say 'TV is bad for you, it rots your brain', and you take it all personal and come back with "Yeah, but you use a computer... so... there!" That has absolutely nothing to do with the point I am making. I know the computer rots my brain too.
See, this isn't a personal argument. I think TV is bad for you, literally viewing TV is unhealthy for your brain. That is objective fact, although we can debate it. So whether I make this argument on the computer has no bearing, and certainly does not make me a hypocrite. If I tried to shy away from the point you are making, but I allow it fully. Yes, computer screens are almost as bad for you. The thing about more control isn't an excuse, because I am not excusing any behavior, it's just that on a computer you slip into a trance, and you are in charge of what you look at. On the TV you are very much not in chharge of what comes on, in the big picture.
And I would like to read your thing about TV viewing Rhizo, I would be very interested. I can see that there may be some strange benefit to surgeons, but we are talking about normal people and children mostly. I don't think that point stands for the average (non-surgeon) person.
You guys live your life as you will, but to argue that the TV is anything other than bad for you intellectually (and we haven't even gotten tot he bias and manipulative coercion of TV shows and news, and the very deliberate and debilitating effect of saturation advertisement).
I'm gonna go live in the real world, seems like the right thing to do.
(January 19, 2010 at 9:23 pm)Pippy Wrote: See, this isn't a personal argument. I think TV is bad for you, literally viewing TV is unhealthy for your brain. That is objective fact,
Then prove it Pip. Surely your not making these claims without supporting evidence are you?. And don't bother arguing against excessive TV use, I already agree it is not good for you, but can you prove that TV in any shape or form is a bad thing?
Until you can your bald-faced assertions are worthless.
odcast:: 
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