Hell is eternal life

[smax]

That depends on what you think the point of life is. If you're the type of person who revels in new experience, it wouldn't necessarily matter how long you live for. In fact, a longer life would be better: more opportunity for new experiences.

Believe me, I get you. I completely understand where you are coming from. People, myself included, tend to think that they know exactly who they are, and who they always will be. But the truth is, people change, and in life, we are constantly finding out that many of the things we think we want are really things we've simply overrated.

Imagine for a second that you really enjoy shooting pool. You study it so hard, and you practice all the time, and you are constantly looking for other people to share a game with you.

Now imagine that some mysterious and magical force comes along and takes away the challenge of the game for you. Now you make every shot, you win every game, and you no longer need to study and practice.

Pool is no longer something you love.

Life is no different. It is death that gives it meaning.

Each of us perceives time slightly differently at different times. It's plausible that a longer life span would 'increase' the speed at which time passes but that wouldn't necessarily speak to its 'pointlessness' or lack thereof.

Actually, I wasn't suggest that one's perception of time would change or be accelerated. No, I was suggesting that being bound to eternal life would cause one to become bored and see life as pointless faster than one who was not bound to it.

If you think you will live only 500 years, you will be more likely to want those 500 years to be fulfilling.

If, however, you had no expiration date, 500 years would have no meaning for you, and neither would a thousand or ten thousand.

A lot of people seek out 'negatives', gain enjoyment from facing trials & challenges. For a minority, there are even pleasures to be gained from 'destructive' scenarios.

Like I said, people change. You can't assume that someone who has such an unorthodox perspective could sustain it indefinitely for even a few hundred years, much less the infinite amount of time in question here.

I'd suggest that the majority 'fight' for life and some people endure seemingly insurmountable struggles for the sake of staying alive as long as possible.

Of course, because they know death is imminent, so why not fight it for a while and try and put it off. I think we almost all do that, and we all should.

I think it's better to say that it's individualistic: for some it would be hell, for others, heaven and the majority would be cast somewhere in between on the distribution curve. Assuming absolute immortality, you might ask how I'd feel floating in space, alone in 800 trillion years time when the universe has expanded so much that it's reached its minimum-energy state. I'd respond by telling you that inter-universal travel across the multiverse had been developed shortly after my 1 billionth birthday so I have an infinite amount of time to enjoy an infinite number of experiences!

I certainly apprectiate your humorous analogy there, but I think anyone who reads that last statement would agree with me that you just described one of the worst hell's imaginable.

Look on the bright side

I am.

---

Well, except we don't get to rest easy... We don't rest any way whatsoever. We are just gone.
Scary, huh.

The rest I was referring was that of a parent who's raised and adequately equipped their child to experience life, and can now sit back and relax with peace of mind. This would hopefully be something experienced long before death.

I spoke with my mother today about the Christian afterlife. An eternity in heaven... Wouldn't that get a bit... boring?

The bible says that Lucifer finally got fed up with kissing god's ass all the time and started having thoughts of what it would be like to experience his own glory. For those thoughts--not actions, mind you--god punished Lucifer by basically disowning and disinheriting him.

Lesson: don't you dare think of yourself in the presence of god! You are there to toot his horn, and his horn only.

Oh, and the believing portion of your family will be there too, but you won't give a shit in your new and much improved robotic state of mind.

It's going to be a blast.

[JuliaL]

And maybe that's the beauty and irony of mortality, the fact that it gives us the ability to truly experience things, both good and bad. It makes us live life and experience life.

I do believe you've got it.
In a finite universe, eternity results in every permutation of events happening an infinite number of times. No activitiy can retain meaning after that kind of repetition. See Wowbagger the infinitely prolonged for a valiant but failed attempt at fighting this. Wowbagger
Religion's best promise turns out to be worse than empty. Sort of a bait and switch.

Life's limited span is an important factor in what makes it so precious.

[Rabb Allah]

I never understood the need to have an eternal life. As human beings we are so afraid of dying it astonishes me. This life is filled with suffering so the fear of death should not be great since it is the release from suffering. The Qur'an gives a very detailed analogy of the Mushrikun in Surat Jathiyah "We live and we die and nothing kills us but time". This cannot be anymore true to be honest as we only have this life to live for certainty.
In the words of Mark Twain: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
The only hope of an afterlife we have is one of greater suffering as a God who intended with full intention and will to promote our own happiness would have assuredly given it to us and comforted us with the hope of an afterlife.

[Brian37]

I'm an atheist, but I wasn't always. I was once a devout Christian. And, as such, I believed in some magical and blissful eternal life. I believed that I would spend an infinite afterlife worshipping god constantly and somehow that end would give me fulfillment, purpose, and everlasting and constant happiness.

Then one day I woke up. Okay, okay, so I didn't exactly just wake up. There were a number of events and developments that preceded my exodus, so to speak. But I think it is accurate to say that I finally woke up. I finally realized that so things in my religion simply didn't make sense.

Instead of going into all of those things right now, however, I just want to focus on eternal life, and not just the Christian version of it. No, my thoughts here apply to any version of eternal life that involves our current consciousness remaining in tact perpetually.

Now, I understand that, on the surface, such a thing as eternal life sounds amazing, and even seems like it should be a normal and vital goal for anyone that values individual survival. And, as far as the survival part goes, I cannot argue against that, but have you ever stopped to think that maybe individual survival is better off with it's evident limits?

Think about that for just a second. Think about the happiest moment of your life, and imagine dwelling within that moment FOREVER. Can you really imagine being happy there forever?

Speaking personally, I have some absolutely wonderful and exciting memories: getting married to my wife. Things her and I have shared together. Our success in marriage and life. Watching our kids grow up and succeed. The list goes on and on.

But you know what, those things, if they could somehow be lived over and over again, could not sustain happiness for an eternity. In fact, I'm not sure they could sustain happiness for even more than a few lifetimes, if that. And part of the reason for that is simple, we value many things in large part because we know deep down this is our only chance to experience them. For that reason, those experiences are treasured.

And maybe that's the beauty and irony of mortality, the fact that it gives us the ability to truly experience things, both good and bad. It makes us live life and experience life.

I just don't think immortality could offer that, no matter how it's proposed by the seemingly infinite number of religions that have attempted to speculate (more like decree) it's dimensions and merits.

Honestly, people, what would we do with eternal life? Constant sex? Drugs? Love forever? Sing? Do you really believe these things could hold value for more than a few hundred years?

Oh, I know, the mysterious higher power will transform our consciousness to an eternally blissful state which is completely mechanical and no longer held back by autonomy, right?

I happen to think that notion is not only unappealing, but fairly ridiculous. But, for argument sake, let's say it's possible. Wouldn't such a transformation be the same as dying? I mean, if you are no longer you, and your ability to decide has been taken from you, aren't you really dead?

In conclusion, let me say this: I think it's a wonderful thing for a person to aim to live well, contribute positively to humanity, experience life to the fullest, and then rest easy with the knowledge that the next generation will have the opportunity to do it all over again, and perhaps even better.

First off congratulations on your escape. It also took me some time too.

But the issue of eternal life in my 12 years of online debate has come up countless times. I agree the idea that eternity would be automatically blissful is disturbing to me because I would simply be a robot at that point if I could not feel pain or get board.

Hell is just as bad a concept too. This isn't simply putting someone in jail to contain them, this is an act of torture and revenge.

But the entire God concept is disturbing even in life. You are watched every second and your only "autonomy" is the choice of either kissing his ass or having him kick your ass. Once you swallow an unmovable character you have subjected yourself to a dictator.

This character always has the final say no matter how good or bad you are, does not need your consent, does not have to explain himself to you, you cannot vote him out of office, or change any laws he makes, you cannot impeach him. You cannot leave him.

The God character as Christopher Hitchens rightfully describes this character as the leader of "a celestial North Korea".

---

And maybe that's the beauty and irony of mortality, the fact that it gives us the ability to truly experience things, both good and bad. It makes us live life and experience life.

I do believe you've got it.
In a finite universe, eternity results in every permutation of events happening an infinite number of times. No activitiy can retain meaning after that kind of repetition. See Wowbagger the infinitely prolonged for a valiant but failed attempt at fighting this. Wowbagger
Religion's best promise turns out to be worse than empty. Sort of a bait and switch.

Life's limited span is an important factor in what makes it so precious.

Precious in what context? From the human point of view yes, but in cosmic time life is a blip and the universe has no cognitive capability of caring about us. In that context, and even in evolutionary terms, we most certainly are not "precious". If I had not been born some other sperm and egg would have. If a meteor had not wiped out the dinosaurs life would have evolved differently.

Macbeth act 5 scene 5 "life is a flurry of activity, full of sound and furry, signifying nothing".

Actually lately I have been thinking that if we would stop collectively as a species thinking we are "special" or as you put it "precious", we could work to extend our finite ride. Our species problem is that we don't want to see ourselves as merely one aspect of nature and one species in evolution.

I do agree though that since this is your only shot, we should feel lucky that any of this even got as far as it did.

[JuliaL]

Life's limited span is an important factor in what makes it so precious.

Precious in what context?

Why, in the only context to which I have direct access.
The only one which I define and over which I have control.
The only one that really counts.


Mine