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Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 11:48 am
Funny how someone can claim that all day long, yet God A is currently indistinguishable from God B.
There's a very old self-contradictory book of dubious origin, that doesn't line up with the historical record and posits God A, but the empirical way God A manifests in the book doesn't line up with reality as observed today.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 12:20 pm
(May 6, 2014 at 11:48 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Funny how someone can claim that all day long, yet God A is currently indistinguishable from God B.
There's a very old self-contradictory book of dubious origin, that doesn't line up with the historical record and posits God A, but the empirical way God A manifests in the book doesn't line up with reality as observed today.
A? As in only one?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 12:26 pm
No, as in AM defending God A and rejecting God B, claiming God A "at some point manifested in reality" as if a book full of claims = empirical evidence.
They've already rejected God B and C for not affecting reality, even though they cannot demonstrate God A's effect on realty.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 1:34 pm
(May 6, 2014 at 12:26 pm)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: No, as in AM defending God A and rejecting God B, claiming God A "at some point manifested in reality" as if a book full of claims = empirical evidence.
They've already rejected God B and C for not affecting reality, even though they cannot demonstrate God A's effect on realty.
I know I was only making a joke/allusion to the fact that there are many bible like books.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 1:55 pm
Of course. None of which are really distinguishable from any other, except to someone exposed to the idea by culture until X version of God A or B seems mundane, and Y version of God A or B ridiculous, and not one believer has been able to substantiate why.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 2:40 pm
(This post was last modified: May 6, 2014 at 3:21 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
A Ground of Being or Unmoved Mover also affect reality in the sense of serving as the basis for it. Such a "God of the Philosophers" also counts as detectable since the evidence for its existence is the whole of reality.
Anyway...let's put this to rest.
A is a necessary being.
B is a unnecessary being.
C is a nonbeing.
Done.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 8:15 pm
(This post was last modified: May 6, 2014 at 8:28 pm by MJ the Skeptical.)
(May 6, 2014 at 11:28 am)alpha male Wrote: I'm the one who made the God D, so I don't know why you're referring to me in the third person. The purpose of my initial post was to suggest ways to improve the OP. The purpose wasn't to duck, as I believe in an A god.
Yeah, I got you mixed up with Godschild on who proposed God D when they shouldn't have. I still see no problem with my example of God B or how you think there is some problem, everyone else except the theists seem to be getting it here. Adding a God D violates the challenge by the way, bit obfuscating too.
(May 6, 2014 at 11:28 am)alpha male Wrote: IMO the Christian god has been "verified or detected to some degree." You have different criteria for detection and/or verification. THat's about all there is to it.
Wouldn't verifying god to any demonstrable degree be Nobel Prize worthy? Who got the Nobel Prize for discovering god again?...
Who got the Nobel Prize for discovering god again?...Obviously you have terrible criteria for verification or detection if you think any god has been verified let alone your particular one (and which sect is the right one anyway). But seriously, what do you have? personal experience? because you sure as hell don't have scientific verification.
(May 6, 2014 at 2:40 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: A Ground of Being or Unmoved Mover also affect reality in the sense of serving as the basis for it. Such a "God of the Philosophers" also counts as detectable since the evidence for its existence is the whole of reality.
Anyway...let's put this to rest.
A is a necessary being.
B is a unnecessary being.
C is a nonbeing.
Done.
Hey look, Chad came by to duck the challenge of differentiation between God B and God C again.
(May 6, 2014 at 11:48 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Funny how someone can claim that all day long, yet God A is currently indistinguishable from God B.
There's a very old self-contradictory book of dubious origin, that doesn't line up with the historical record and posits God A, but the empirical way God A manifests in the book doesn't line up with reality as observed today.
Good point, God A and God B would be eerily similar as B and C are.
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 8:22 pm
(May 6, 2014 at 8:15 pm)Godslayer Wrote: (May 6, 2014 at 11:28 am)alpha male Wrote: I'm the one who made the God D, so I don't know why you're referring to me in the third person. The purpose of my initial post was to suggest ways to improve the OP. The purpose wasn't to duck, as I believe in an A god.
Yeah, I got you mixed up with Godschild on who proposed God D when they shouldn't have. I still see no problem with my example of God B or how you think there is some problem, everyone else except the theists seem to be getting it here. Adding a God D violates the challenge by the way, bit obfuscating too.
(May 6, 2014 at 11:28 am)alpha male Wrote: IMO the Christian god has been "verified or detected to some degree." You have different criteria for detection and/or verification. THat's about all there is to it.
Who got the Nobel Prize for discovering god again?...Obviously you have terrible criteria for verification or detection if you think any god has been verified let alone your particular one (and which sect is the right one anyway). But seriously, what do you have? personal experience? because you sure as hell don't have scientific verification.
(May 6, 2014 at 2:40 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: A Ground of Being or Unmoved Mover also affect reality in the sense of serving as the basis for it. Such a "God of the Philosophers" also counts as detectable since the evidence for its existence is the whole of reality.
Anyway...let's put this to rest.
A is a necessary being.
B is a unnecessary being.
C is a nonbeing.
Done.
Hey look, Chad came by to duck the challenge of differentiation of God B and God C again.
(May 6, 2014 at 11:48 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Funny how someone can claim that all day long, yet God A is currently indistinguishable from God B.
There's a very old self-contradictory book of dubious origin, that doesn't line up with the historical record and posits God A, but the empirical way God A manifests in the book doesn't line up with reality as observed today.
Good point, God A and God B would be eerily similar as B and C are. Now you're just being obtuse. The difference between B and C is that B is unnecessary and C doesn't exist. That's the difference.
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RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 8:27 pm
(This post was last modified: May 6, 2014 at 8:29 pm by MJ the Skeptical.)
(May 6, 2014 at 8:22 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (May 6, 2014 at 8:15 pm)Godslayer Wrote: Yeah, I got you mixed up with Godschild on who proposed God D when they shouldn't have. I still see no problem with my example of God B or how you think there is some problem, everyone else except the theists seem to be getting it here. Adding a God D violates the challenge by the way, bit obfuscating too.
Who got the Nobel Prize for discovering god again?...Obviously you have terrible criteria for verification or detection if you think any god has been verified let alone your particular one (and which sect is the right one anyway). But seriously, what do you have? personal experience? because you sure as hell don't have scientific verification.
Hey look, Chad came by to duck the challenge of differentiation of God B and God C again.
Good point, God A and God B would be eerily similar as B and C are. Now you're just being obtuse. The difference between B and C is that B is unnecessary and C doesn't exist. That's the difference.
The point that obviously keeps going over your head and alpha male's is that they are indistinguishable from each other. So I'm asking for a differentiation, that's not unreasonable. It's not unnecessary to ask a believer to tell me the difference between your invisible, silent god from a fictional story with a god that doesn't exist. Stop being such a rube about this.
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm
(May 6, 2014 at 8:22 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (May 6, 2014 at 8:15 pm)Godslayer Wrote: Yeah, I got you mixed up with Godschild on who proposed God D when they shouldn't have. I still see no problem with my example of God B or how you think there is some problem, everyone else except the theists seem to be getting it here. Adding a God D violates the challenge by the way, bit obfuscating too.
Who got the Nobel Prize for discovering god again?...Obviously you have terrible criteria for verification or detection if you think any god has been verified let alone your particular one (and which sect is the right one anyway). But seriously, what do you have? personal experience? because you sure as hell don't have scientific verification.
Hey look, Chad came by to duck the challenge of differentiation of God B and God C again.
Good point, God A and God B would be eerily similar as B and C are. Now you're just being obtuse. The difference between B and C is that B is unnecessary and C doesn't exist. That's the difference.
I'm interested in seeing a conclusive argument for a necessary being, otherwise that term has no meaning.
Aquinas Wrote:Since objects in the universe come into being and pass away, it is possible for those objects to exist or for those objects not to exist at any given time.
Since objects are countable, the objects in the universe are finite in number.
If, for all existent objects, they do not exist at some time, then, given infinite time, there would be nothing in existence. (Nothing can come from nothing—there is no creation ex nihilo) for individual existent objects.
But, in fact, many objects exist in the universe.
Therefore, a Necessary Being (i.e., a Being of which it is impossible that it should not exist) exists.
The same objections to other ontological arguments apply, and necessity is an unsupported presupposition.
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