Proving the Bible

[Jackalope]

Do we call that 'nothing'

It's appearing as though "nothing" may very well be an incoherent concept, FWIW.

[StuW]

So anyway. You are saying that energy is being created out of nothing (no black holes from my understanding) without a cause. Just randomly happens. That's a bit absurd and harder to take in then the idea of God.

Something From Nothing [Scientific American]

[lordofgemini]

Also does this mean the entire universe is under an energy debt right now?

I like this theory tbh

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Do we call that 'nothing'

It's appearing as though "nothing" may very well be an incoherent concept, FWIW.

Precisely. That's why we say God is everywhere.

[Rampant.A.I.]

[Jackalope]

It's appearing as though "nothing" may very well be an incoherent concept, FWIW.

Precisely. That's why we say God is everywhere.

What's this "we" stuff? "We" call it vacuum energy.

[lordofgemini]

Sorry about that.

So from my understanding the entire universe is under an energy debt and that ' vaccum energy ' and vaccum particles pairs have always been there. I.e. eternal. ?

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Oh and does this make sense?

The universe was born out of a tiny particle, which had two opposite poles. That particle produced an atom. In this way matter came into being. Then the matter diversified. This diversification was caused by the density or rarity of the atoms

[StuW]

Sorry about that.

So from my understanding the entire universe is under an energy debt and that ' vaccum energy ' and vaccum particles pairs have always been there. I.e. eternal. ?

The universe is under energy debt yes, the vacuum energy is made of particle pairs which are created and destroyed so no they haven't always existed. You've heard the term "Nature abhors a vacuum?" this is natures way of getting round that.

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Oh and does this make sense?

The universe was born out of a tiny particle, which had two opposite poles. That particle produced an atom. In this way matter came into being. Then the matter diversified. This diversification was caused by the density or rarity of the atoms

Again no. I presume by the original particle you mean the singularity? There is no "matter" until about 3 - 20 minutes after the big bang (Nucleosynthesis stage) and even then it's only Hydrogen, Deuterium and Helium-4 (this is what i think i can remember from reading many books so may not be 100% accurate). I presume the other matter you mention is created in nuclear fusion in stars. I don't understand where you get the poles thing from?

[lordofgemini]

Nah I just read the last para from some unsoursed book. Nvm it.
I thought It sounded similar to the two anti particles/poles.

So basically universe is an energy debt that means there must be negative energy somewhere?

By always I meant they have been created and destroyed since forever. Right or did this start after big bang?

[StuW]

Nah I just read the last para from some unsoursed book. Nvm it.
I thought It sounded similar to the two anti particles/poles.

So basically universe is an energy debt that means there must be negative energy somewhere?

By always I meant they have been created and destroyed since forever. Right or did this start after big bang?

To be honest we're getting beyond my knowledge level here and Alex K would probably be better to explain further. As I understand it there is a theory that the big bang itself may have been the ultimate vacuum energy event and the source of all matter (think a bicycle bump with your finger on the end creating negative pressure when you pull, likewise the universe expanded creating negative energy and creating the vacuum without taking energy from the outside so not taking anything from elsewhere?). Regardless, I see you are trying to put across an idea that something has been forever or infinite, can you expand based on what we've discussed?

[lordofgemini]

This is also way beyond me.
But the way I see it such a huge energy debt is hard to explain. As it must be taking all the energy or destroying the positive energy. When I think of black hole it cannot be called the negative energy as it is scarcity of energy. (This is how I imagine it. Atoms are 99% free space right, so if we keep on compressing atoms that there is no free space left, it density will be extremely high and this will result in the high gravity)
So if we are to say energy debt exists then the universe wouldnt last. (Might be wrong). We would at least see something (huge) disappearing into nowhere, there should be observable effects.. My point is that energy must have always existed, the huge amount of energy we see. Because I still can't get the idea if such a large energy debt across my mind.