what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?

[naimless]

And does the law or being shamed come from religion? The law is secular. so is social shame.

Lol. The people with the power to create laws or shame people to millions are incredibly influenced by religious interests. Just look up some recent history or stalk your local freemason. God save the Queen, God bless America...

Only a psychopath/sociopath or the like would think that way. So this does not apply to most atheists or most people for that matter.

Best be careful then, Mr. Irrational, eh...

Doesn't matter what the reason is (at least practically speaking). People are subconsciously conditioned to see killing, in most cases, to be wrong regardless.

Exactly... and most of that subconscious through the years has come down from people in power, be it the Roman empire and the Vatican, the British empire, or the forefathers of America. Thou shalt not kill...

Christian torture of heretics

Of course the priests and politicians preach one thing to the masses, and do others. It is part of the control. Also part of the reason why people will have no problem labelling me a psychopath on a relatively anonymous Internet forum, despite never killing or lying to anyone here, whereas the likes of Obama who has actually killed thousands of people and lied to billions... no problem, because the law is perceived as secular. Lmao.

There's a word to describe people who can't think of reasons not to murder besides potential consequences: psychopaths.

What are your reasons not to murder? How are they not potentially consequential?

[ManMachine]

Someone on another Atheist chat gave me a 'cheat sheet' which had all the answers to what to say when Christians ask stuff long time ago, but i lost it.

but seems frequently christian people tell me that without god we are all douches and if it wasn't for god there would be no good in mankind - so what do we say again for that?

sometimes i feel like 99% of people are pretty mean and it feels pretty spiritual when someone is nice to me, but i dont agree that without Christianity people are bad cus i know lotta nice people who aren't Christians. and seems to me like people on christian forums are the most mean, they don't use bad words but the things they say are much more mean IMO

I'm not sure getting ones morality from an infant killing, slave trade promoting, misogynistic, bloodthirsty, genocidal, jealous, wrathful, vengeful deity is a strong position to argue from for a Christian.

Morality is ones self-censoring mechanism (the clue here is the word 'self'). It is a strategy that is the sum of many conscious and subconscious processes. A conceptual and ultimately behavioural glue that enables us to form social groups or conversely exclude people (including oneself) from those groups. These groups originally prevented humans - who are basically clawless, fangless, soggy bags of lion food - from being 'evolved-out' of their environment. And that applies today as much as it did in the past.

Christians often fail to grasp that morality is self-censorship, to them it is a given set of laws that leads to an afterlife and they often make the mistake of reversing this and suggesting that without an afterlife there is no reason for morality. The simple response to this should be;

'My atheist morality is what is preventing me from smashing your dumb-ass Christian head through that wall'.

If they get angry at this I offer up the wise words of Bill Hicks when faced with a bunch of Christian 'rednecks' who didn't like his comments on Jesus,

'So, forgive me.'

MM

[GrandizerII]

Only a psychopath/sociopath or the like would think that way. So this does not apply to most atheists or most people for that matter.

Best be careful then, Mr. Irrational, eh...

I always am.

Exactly... and most of that subconscious through the years has come down from people in power, be it the Roman empire and the Vatican, the British empire, or the forefathers of America. Thou shalt not kill...

I don't think so. I think we've been evolutionarily wired to see that killing others of the same species is not often favorable.

[Rampant.A.I.]

And does the law or being shamed come from religion? The law is secular. so is social shame.

Lol. The people with the power to create laws or shame people to millions are incredibly influenced by religious interests. Just look up some recent history or stalk your local freemason. God save the Queen, God bless America...

Only a psychopath/sociopath or the like would think that way. So this does not apply to most atheists or most people for that matter.

Best be careful then, Mr. Irrational, eh...

Doesn't matter what the reason is (at least practically speaking). People are subconsciously conditioned to see killing, in most cases, to be wrong regardless.

Exactly... and most of that subconscious through the years has come down from people in power, be it the Roman empire and the Vatican, the British empire, or the forefathers of America. Thou shalt not kill...

Christian torture of heretics

Of course the priests and politicians preach one thing to the masses, and do others. It is part of the control. Also part of the reason why people will have no problem labelling me a psychopath on a relatively anonymous Internet forum, despite never killing or lying to anyone here, whereas the likes of Obama who has actually killed thousands of people and lied to billions... no problem, because the law is perceived as secular. Lmao.

There's a word to describe people who can't think of reasons not to murder besides potential consequences: psychopaths.

What are your reasons not to murder? How are they not potentially consequential?

What possible motivation aside of an "us vs them" in group vs out group mentality would justify something like the inquisition, conquista, or the psychopathic mentality you're advocating?

I don't want to murder, therefore I don't murder. I don't want to steal, therefore I don't steal. If you have these urges and only hold them back because of the threat of eternal punishment, you should really speak to someone about it.

Your most compelling argument after claiming there's no reason not to commit murder without threat of divine justice, and being shown lithographs from the Inquisition is "Thanks Obama"?

[Mister Agenda]

What are your reasons not to murder? How are they not potentially consequential?

I didn't mean to confuse you into thinking that consequences other than bad things being imposed on you by society or supernatural powers were implied, my apologies.

I've never felt the urge to murder someone. Yell at them, maybe. Make cutting remarks, perhaps. So lack of reason TO murder, comes to mind as a reason not to that doesn't really involve consequences. How about laziness or apathy? Squeamishness? Getting along well with others? If I did want to murder someone, THEN consequences would come into play. Someone who can't see why you wouldn't murder people left and right clearly wants to murder people indiscriminately, and only holds back out of fear of consequences (or more likely, has swallowed the lie that if they didn't believe in God, that's what they would want to do).

Someone who avoids murder because of anticipated guilt and remorse would not be a psychopath. Someone who cannot think of those as reasons, would be.

[naimless]

I don't want to murder, therefore I don't murder. I don't want to steal, therefore I don't steal. If you have these urges and only hold them back because of the threat of eternal punishment, you should really speak to someone about it.

Well I am happy you have lived a sheltered life thus far.

But let's say someone does murder someone or something close to you, or does significantly steal from you and the law cannot help you.

Would you seek revenge or forgiveness?

Perhaps as a 7/7 atheist I seek revenge, yet as a devout Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc. I seek forgiveness.

I can't see the motivation as an atheist to take a moral high ground, assuming there was no potential earthly punishment beyond my control and nothing existed after earth.

[Rampant.A.I.]

You keep repeating this garbage over and over again, yet the idea of divine justice and repentance for sin is what allowed the inquisition to take place, and allows clergy to commit child rape with impunity: "God will punish them, not our problem, let's protect the image of the church."

You matter-of-factly state that without divine justice, there's no reason not to murder, and yet the worst genocides in history have been religiously motivated, and Christians are the #1 most represented group in prison in the US, they account for 80% of the prison population.

You claim there's no reason not to go on a murder rampage without an authority figure to ensure you don't. Are you planning on becoming a serial rapist?

I know a victim of rape whose rapist has told her God already forgave him, and it's time she "got over it" because he got over it years ago. That's the morality you're advocating.

Your God doesn't seem to have a problem with rape, as long as you mail 30 silver to the woman's father, or simply ask for forgiveness, with no regard whatsoever for the victim.

So if God isn't stopping you from raping every woman you see, what is?

[The Grand Nudger]

I can't see the motivation as an atheist to take a moral high ground, assuming there was no potential earthly punishment beyond my control and nothing existed after earth.

"For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight."

-To prove that you have made a creed true in yourself by force of discipline?

-Also, because I'm a better person than someone who is being bribed into decency by flowery promises.

[naimless]

I know a victim of rape whose rapist has told her God already forgave him, and it's time she "got over it" because he got over it years ago.

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

[Mister Agenda]

Well I am happy you have lived a sheltered life thus far.

But let's say someone does murder someone or something close to you, or does significantly steal from you and the law cannot help you.

Would you seek revenge or forgiveness?

Perhaps as a 7/7 atheist I seek revenge, yet as a devout Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc. I seek forgiveness.

There is no observable correlation between being Christian/Muslim/Hindu etc. and seeking forgiveness instead of revenge. There IS an observable correlation between Christian/Muslim and the death penalty. There IS an observable correlation between being a humanist and being against the death penalty, which is state-sanctioned revenge.

I can't see the motivation as an atheist to take a moral high ground, assuming there was no potential earthly punishment beyond my control and nothing existed after earth.

Empathy, sense of fairness, desire to live in a society that is relatively fair, just, and safe....yeah, what's the attraction of those things if evildoers don't get punished in the afterlife, eh?

---

I know a victim of rape whose rapist has told her God already forgave him, and it's time she "got over it" because he got over it years ago.

So what prevents one from seeking revenge against said rapist?

Ethical considerations come to mind. Well, they come to my mind, but they seem to consistently fail to come to yours.