Religious "moderates" and atheists

[Lek]

Jesus said that "it's harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle". When nations and people gain too much material wealth they become proud start to think they can do it all themselves. That's when they begin to collapse, as in the case of present day America and Western Europe. It's all history repeating itself.

Jesus also said to sell your possessions and give it all to the poor, and you obviously haven't, so I like how you say this, as if you aren't one of the 'rich men' he's talking about.

The rich young man he was talking to was attached to his possessions to the point that he was unwilling to part with them to follow Jesus. That's why he told him he needed to give them away. They were keeping him from God. He never said that, as a general rule, we must give all our possessions away, rather we are to be good stewards of them. Everything we have is on loan from God and is to be used for his purposes. The western world is declining economically and as a world power. China is taking more and more of world market. India's economy is growing very quickly. Putin in Russia is laughing at us while he takes more of Ukraine. The standard of living is also on the decline in the West.

[Mudhammam]

Which raises the other issue I have a big problem with, and think anyone who truly grasps the suffering it causes does too--that fundamentalism involves raising children ill-equipped to think freely, to use their reasoning faculties to question all ideas and formulate their own views independent of that lingering voice in the back of their head which they misunderstand as God's. It is that haranguing voice of authority that utters condemnations when one steps too far over the line, an all-too-human screech. It is not the voice of a well-reasoned moral compass but that of a diabolical theocrat.

so the problem is fundies ... not religion. Been saying that since i was in the sixth grade. your almost there ... keep thinking and talking.

That's what this entire thread is about.

---

He never said that, as a general rule, we must give all our possessions away, rather we are to be good stewards of them. Everything we have is on loan from God and is to be used for his purposes.

A good steward? Meaning....?
"his purposes"? Meaning....?

[Angrboda]

I'm conflating? You're the one who is asserting that my membership in a group makes me responsible for the acts of individuals in that group.

1) I never singled you out.
2) I never said you were responsible for anyone's actions.

What strikes me about this is that most atheists seem to only exist as vocal opponents to religion because the moderates aren't doing the job of discrediting the extremists themselves. And moderates, that is your job, not ours.

You did both. And you've yet to support your opening statement with anything but bollocks about how "if I love the world" or "if I want to engage in rational debate" and a bunch of condemnations of religiously held opinions. I have no positive duty to save the world. That's the most idiotic thing you've said. And worse, you want me to save the world from people believing certain things and teaching their children to believe them. If that's the "crime of fundamentalism," then fuck you. More power to them. As long as privately held religious belief is not the cause of evil, it's none of my business. You and others here think simply having fundamentalist beliefs is evil, and have some silly argument that I'm turning a blind eye to evil by ignoring it. That's nonsense. And furthermore, the fact that I have different concerns than you, and different approaches to the problem, doesn't make me "part of the problem." This whole, "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude of yours is more clearly a contributor.

Now, do you have anything but empty bile-laden rhetoric to back up your initial statement?

Asswipe.

[Mudhammam]

1) I never singled you out.
2) I never said you were responsible for anyone's actions.

You did both. And you've yet to support your opening statement with anything but bollocks about how "if I love the world" or "if I want to engage in rational debate" and a bunch of condemnations of religiously held opinions.

Did you just wake up in the world yesterday? If not, I shouldn't have to demonstrate to you the many issues that face the world, from global warming to free individual expression, and where religious fundamentalists typically fall on such issues. It's evident pretty much everywhere you look.

I have no positive duty to save the world.

I didn't say you did. I only said if you wish to move mankind forward, if you care about the world's future at all, and wish to be part of the solution, then the problems we face must be directly confronted. If you accept that these problems require a widespread change of mindset, and clearly they do, then it is your duty to at least contribute to the discussion and dissent from the extremist views that harm the world rather than help it. Religious fundamentalism has proven itself throughout history to be an obstacle to overcome in this fight, not an ally.

That's the most idiotic thing you've said. And worse, you want me to save the world from people believing certain things and teaching their children to believe them. If that's the "crime of fundamentalism," then fuck you. More power to them.

Yeah, who cares if girls with Muslim parents have their clitorises cut off? Who cares if boys and girls raised Christian kill themselves because they can't cope with being gay? Who cares if our planet becomes inhabitable because people thought a spirit in the sky would save it? Yeah. Power to them.

You're a real dick head.

As long as privately held religious belief is not the cause of evil, it's none of my business.

Ohhhh yeah because that's what this discussion has been about. Except that it's not. Because fundamentalism never remains "private" at the voting booth or behind the lash of a whip. And do you think raising children in a mental cage is going to translate to well-reasoned ideologies that aren't related to religion?

You and others here think simply having fundamentalist beliefs is evil, and have some silly argument that I'm turning a blind eye to evil by ignoring it. That's nonsense.

Is it nonsense to care that millions, if not billions, of people spend their whole lives believing in lies that have been cemented in their minds at the earliest age they can remember? If you ignore that, the fear induced in the human psyche as a result of mythologies, than yeah, you're a fucking douche.

And furthermore, the fact that I have different concerns than you, and different approaches to the problem, doesn't make me "part of the problem."

What are your concerns? Thus far it seems to be, "let religious people play with their toys," meanwhile remaining ignorant of the problems that effect everyone else as a result.

This whole, "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude of yours is more clearly a contributor.

It's called the real world.

[Angrboda]

Because fundamentalism never remains "private" at the voting booth or behind the barrel of a gun. And do you think raising children in a mental cage is going to translate to well-reasoned ideologies that aren't related to religion?

Voting? Seriously? I should oppose fundamentalists exercising their right to vote? And you're morally equating gun violence with raising your children in the faith?

You're a nutjob.

[Mudhammam]

Because fundamentalism never remains "private" at the voting booth or behind the barrel of a gun. And do you think raising children in a mental cage is going to translate to well-reasoned ideologies that aren't related to religion?

Voting? Seriously? I should oppose fundamentalists exercising their right to vote? And you're morally equating gun violence with raising your children in the faith?

You're a nutjob.

Violence, in general, is often inspired by religious faith. I edited it to "lash of a whip" since I figured you'd cling onto the gun comment. And that's only one of the problems I mentioned. You must either be a simple fool or an ingenuous troll feigning ignorance.

[Angrboda]

Voting? Seriously? I should oppose fundamentalists exercising their right to vote? And you're morally equating gun violence with raising your children in the faith?

You're a nutjob.

Violence, in general, is often inspired by religious faith. I edited it to "lash of a whip" since I figured you'd cling onto the gun comment. And that's only one of the problems I mentioned. You must either be a simple fool or an ingenuous troll feigning ignorance.

This is so fucking typical. When a religious person disagrees with you, out come the accusations of stupidity and lying.

Maybe you're not as knowledgeable about "the real world" as you think you are.

[Mudhammam]

This is so fucking typical. When a religious person disagrees with you, out come the accusations of stupidity and lying.

What's typical? My "accusations" or your outward displays of "stupidity and lying"? In this thread I'd say the latter.

Maybe you're not as knowledgeable about "the real world" as you think you are.

Admitting that was my first step in liberation from religion.

[Angrboda]

You're an idiot.

[Ryantology]

The rich young man he was talking to was attached to his possessions to the point that he was unwilling to part with them to follow Jesus. That's why he told him he needed to give them away. They were keeping him from God. He never said that, as a general rule, we must give all our possessions away, rather we are to be good stewards of them. Everything we have is on loan from God and is to be used for his purposes. The western world is declining economically and as a world power. China is taking more and more of world market. India's economy is growing very quickly. Putin in Russia is laughing at us while he takes more of Ukraine. The standard of living is also on the decline in the West.

He was absolutely talking to people like you. The fact that you're justifying not doing as Jesus directed proves that you value your possessions and wealth more than the spirit of your faith. If that's obvious to me, it'll be obvious to your savior.

But, no, go ahead and blame everybody else, while spouting trite generalizations about geopolitics. That's obviously what Jesus would want.