New Athiest Needs Help

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The Big Bang Theory is a Catholic theory of creation. It's as silly as the Genesis theory.

Pretty sure the Vedic religious traditions, including Hinduism, have the catholics beat by about 3500 years.

It's silly whoever came up with it.

[ronedee]

OP, allow me to introduce you to the most powerful question we have in refuting theists: How do you know?

How does he know the universe could not have come from nothing? How does he know that there couldn't be an infinite chain of creators, and so on? Hell, more importantly, how does he know he's encompassed every possible solution to this issue?

Knowledge is demonstrated and not just asserted, so he's going to need to bring some evidence to bear, which he doesn't have. Nobody does, but the difference is that as an atheist I'm more comfortable just leaving that question at the "I don't know" stage and letting the evidence fall where it may. If someone else wants to assert things about something they can't possibly know about, then they'd better get all their shit together before they start spouting off assertions.

How does he know? The answer is that he doesn't, and his shell game relies upon you not figuring that out to work. Don't fall prey to the false dichotomy he's trying to introduce.

Just because you (and the others by cudos) say you are "more comfortable", doesn't reason anything. Not in the least.

You want to disprove God exists. That is your real goal. And this, when His proof has been in your faces all along!

.... that will be the biggest shock to anti's in the end. The one biggest gift from God goes unrecognized.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.

[GrandizerII]

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.

This is a claim, not proof.

[ronedee]

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.

This is a claim, not proof.

For who?

[Esquilax]

Just because you (and the others by cudos) say you are "more comfortable", doesn't reason anything. Not in the least.

True, it's just a personal observation, that christians simply will not admit their ignorance on certain subjects. That as it may be, the answer to the questions they propose a god for is still "I don't know," whether you guys want to admit it or not.

You want to disprove God exists. That is your real goal. And this, when His proof has been in your faces all along!

I don't need to disprove something that has never been demonstrated. Stop trying to shift the burden of proof to cover for the utter failures of your religion.

.... that will be the biggest shock to anti's in the end. The one biggest gift from God goes unrecognized.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.

Ooh, look, you can quote an old book. Shocker.

But the bible is the claim that god exists, not the evidence that he does. In fact, the passage you quoted is factually wrong- in that god's qualities aren't clearly seen since most likely he doesn't exist- and relies on a presupposition that you haven't really demonstrated.

Honestly, this is just lazy argumentation, Ronny: anyone can quote an old book, why should I take the bible to be an old book worth quoting from, rather than one that contradicts it?

[GrandizerII]

This is a claim, not proof.

For who?

In general. It's not proof of God's existence.

If I say The Great Mystical Dragon sees all, does this mean it's proof that He does?

[ronedee]

Ooh, look, you can quote an old book. Shocker.

But the bible is the claim that god exists, not the evidence that he does. In fact, the passage you quoted is factually wrong- in that god's qualities aren't clearly seen since most likely he doesn't exist- and relies on a presupposition that you haven't really demonstrated.

Honestly, this is just lazy argumentation, Ronny: anyone can quote an old book, why should I take the bible to be an old book worth quoting from, rather than one that contradicts it?

I keep forgetting you guys are void of anything spiritual.....or factual.

I'm not arguing anything. I am pointing out "existence" as proof. Your proof is nonexistent.

So, mr. intel.... Who has more "proof"? Can you deny your senses? Or, have you abandoned them?

[Esquilax]

I keep forgetting you guys are void of anything spiritual.....or factual.

That sentence is shockingly ironic.

I'm not arguing anything. I am pointing out "existence" as proof. Your proof is nonexistent.

Existence is proof of existence. We both agree, things exist. To say that the fact that things exist is proof of your god is begging the question in a major way; as I said in my last post, the answer to the question of origins, right now, is "I don't know," for both of us.

So, mr. intel.... Who has more "proof"? Can you deny your senses? Or, have you abandoned them?

How is existence proof of god? What can you point to, in existence, that demonstrates divinity?

Just saying "look at all these things that exist!" is just you being a moron.

[ronedee]

Just saying "look at all these things that exist!" is just you being a moron.

What proof do you have to the contrary?

"IF" their is a God, doesn't He get to make the rules? If you live and breathe what more do you need from Him?

What do you actually want The Supreme Ruler of the Universe to do for YOU!

That is very humorous to me! What do you want from GOD! What do YOU deserve? What does He owe YOU?

[Esquilax]

What proof do you have to the contrary?

Again, shifting the burden of proof won't work on... thinking beings. Do you have to disprove every claim I make or else believe it?

"IF" their is a God, doesn't He get to make the rules? If you live and breathe what more do you need from Him?

That's a pretty big if that you haven't even attempted to demonstrate, and even if you could that doesn't necessarily mean that god gets to make all the rules.

What do you actually want The Supreme Ruler of the Universe to do for YOU!

Given that I don't believe he exists, I don't really want him to do anything. This is a non-sequitur anyway, probably added in to try and distract from the unjustified presuppositions you're using here, and your inability to provide evidence for the things you believe.

That is very humorous to me! What do you want from GOD! What do YOU deserve? What does He owe YOU?

Things that haven't been demonstrated to exist can't do anything, so it'd be very silly of me to want anything from him. Enough dodging though: do you understand the burden of proof or not?