miracles and circumstances

[KUSA]

Yeah, Whats up with the old Angel pony express? We don't hear from them anymore. Why did Angels suddenly become so shy in the age of cameras and science?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

G-C has tied his scrotum into knots trying to squirm his way out of this dilemma.

He fails constantly.

If his god exists - he's a dick.

The far more reasonable answer is that he is just as phony as all the other gods invented by man.

'Scrotal Knots' would be a great name for a band.

Boru

[Godscreated]

The correct translation is calamity.

Given the two words are interchangeable, your point is moot.

No it's not moot, the word fit the situation, they are not interchangeable.

GC

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The correct translation is calamity.

GC

This, of course, brings up another issue, that of the reliability of translations.

If God is perfect and wishes that none be damned (he doesn't, there are people whom he specifically wants to be damned, but leave that aside for the mo'), why would he allow errors of translation in the Bible? Clearly, God could have removed the ambiguity about the Hebrew word 'rah' for instance.

Rather than being 'the word of God', the Bible bears all the marks of mistranslated mythology.

Boru

Like any ancient language the longer we study it the more we learn about it. The english language is terrible for a word having many completely different meanings.

GC

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Given the two words are interchangeable, your point is moot.

No it's not moot, the word fit the situation, they are not interchangeable.

GC

---

This, of course, brings up another issue, that of the reliability of translations.

If God is perfect and wishes that none be damned (he doesn't, there are people whom he specifically wants to be damned, but leave that aside for the mo'), why would he allow errors of translation in the Bible? Clearly, God could have removed the ambiguity about the Hebrew word 'rah' for instance.

Rather than being 'the word of God', the Bible bears all the marks of mistranslated mythology.

Boru

Like any ancient language the longer we study it the more we learn about it. The english language is terrible for a word having many completely different meanings.

GC

Utterly beside the point. If then Bible is God's word, and God is omnipotent as wants humans to be saved (most of them, I mean), then he could have made the Bible immediately explicable to everyone. As mentioned above, we could simply read the Bible and know EXACTLY what God wants from us. Since we don't, it argues very strongly against the Bible having the unique spiritual value claimed for it.

Furthermore, the word translated as 'evil' in the passage under discussion has a whole raft of different meanings in Hebrew, so it seems rather unfair to point the translation finger at English.

Boru

[Godscreated]

No it's not moot, the word fit the situation, they are not interchangeable.

GC

---

Like any ancient language the longer we study it the more we learn about it. The english language is terrible for a word having many completely different meanings.

GC

Utterly beside the point. If then Bible is God's word, and God is omnipotent as wants humans to be saved (most of them, I mean), then he could have made the Bible immediately explicable to everyone. As mentioned above, we could simply read the Bible and know EXACTLY what God wants from us. Since we don't, it argues very strongly against the Bible having the unique spiritual value claimed for it.

Furthermore, the word translated as 'evil' in the passage under discussion has a whole raft of different meanings in Hebrew, so it seems rather unfair to point the translation finger at English.

Boru

Excuse any and everything to make your point the correct one want you, dishonest, dishonest. Calamity fits well with the situation surrounding the verse and evil doesn't fit at all according to the rest of the scriptures.
Were you not taught that words with several meaning should be considered by the situation, was basic when I was in school.

GC

[max-greece]

GC,

So you don't believe God created evil?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Utterly beside the point. If then Bible is God's word, and God is omnipotent as wants humans to be saved (most of them, I mean), then he could have made the Bible immediately explicable to everyone. As mentioned above, we could simply read the Bible and know EXACTLY what God wants from us. Since we don't, it argues very strongly against the Bible having the unique spiritual value claimed for it.

Furthermore, the word translated as 'evil' in the passage under discussion has a whole raft of different meanings in Hebrew, so it seems rather unfair to point the translation finger at English.

Boru

Excuse any and everything to make your point the correct one want you, dishonest, dishonest. Calamity fits well with the situation surrounding the verse and evil doesn't fit at all according to the rest of the scriptures.
Were you not taught that words with several meaning should be considered by the situation, was basic when I was in school.

GC

Actually, the surrounding verses are concerned with righteousness and salvation, so God claiming to commit moral evil fits better than God claiming responsibility for moral evil.

But you (deliberately, I think) didn't address my chief point which is that translation should not matter. God could have easily made the meaning of the Bible in toto clear to everyone. Why didn't he?

Boru

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Isiah 45:7

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

That should settle it. God himself said he creates evil. Why is this even still a thing?

Please pick from the following standard theist rebuttals when confronted with one of the myriad of contradictions inherent in their own belief system/holy book:

1. You're interpreting it wrong
2. Redefine the word
3. Ignore the comment and carry on quotin'
4. Admit the contradiction and reassess as necessary.

[ThomM]

In yet another talk what was brought to the table was...

"God doesn't make bad things happen,that's the Devil,but God allows it to make you grow and test your faith."

any refutations? mine were...
Why is it that when good things happen you attribute it to God,but when not it's the devil? because who created the Devil in the first place?

The fact that God(an all knowing being) needs to test someone when it's clear he'd know the answer..makes no sense to me.

The problem with the statement that a "god" does not make bad things happen is the it has a FUNDAMENTAL FLAW - among monotheistic religions.

IF there is only ONE with the power of creation - only one god - then the god had to have created everything = good, bad, and evil.

If the god did not create evil -= then where did it come from? IS there another with the power of creation?

There are PLENTY of problems with the claims of religion. Another example going with what you said about an all knowing god.

If a god ALWAYS knew EVERYTHING that would happen - then there is only ONE possible "choice" for every situation - the one the god already knows. No one can actually have free will - because it would have to include the power to choose something the god DID not know. ONLY one option is not free choice - it is simply a requirement.

And of course - if the god is all knowing - it knows everything IT will do -- and IT cannot do anything except what it knows as well.

[Godscreated]

Excuse any and everything to make your point the correct one want you, dishonest, dishonest. Calamity fits well with the situation surrounding the verse and evil doesn't fit at all according to the rest of the scriptures.
Were you not taught that words with several meaning should be considered by the situation, was basic when I was in school.

GC

Actually, the surrounding verses are concerned with righteousness and salvation, so God claiming to commit moral evil fits better than God claiming responsibility for moral evil.

But you (deliberately, I think) didn't address my chief point which is that translation should not matter. God could have easily made the meaning of the Bible in toto clear to everyone. Why didn't he?

Boru

Seems the Christians have no trouble understanding, could it be we're more intelligent.

GC